I thought i was finished but now i must continue to represent myself and all the other great musicians in this industry. I do play in bars because i work with other country artist. I also play in church camps as well as at my own church every Sunday morning i am not on tour. I think what deon was really debating but not saying was reverence. Reverence in SGM. let me tell you alittle bout what i consider reverent. I also spoke to my paster about this same subject. Being reverent IS NOT!!!! a style of music, it is not a volume of sound, it is not they way you get “into” the music. Reverence IS how your heart is, how your walk with God is, its spending personal time with God.
I play for Monument QT. I am the drummer for them on the road and on their upcoming live DVD/CD release. I love the guys in the group and as far as musicians i feel we are very good at what we do. The bass player is a very close and good friend of mine. we work together for country artist, in a jazz trio, and in the studio recording many different styles of music. When he jumps around on stage its because he and i are INTO the music. your right deon we are. We dont watch rock bands to sop their moves. We just simply enjoy what we do for a living. Thats why in the country segment of the show we are rocking out and having a blast. why should be stop having fun when we play gospel music. it never has and never will be about someone knowing our name. we can care less about all that. If i as a musician ever took the stage and didn’t play with intensity, and emotion then i should stop performing. Being reverent when the SG songs come up on the set list is simply a joke. We as a group get some flak for playing country tunes, and thats fine too. Not everyone will like what we do, but you cant say we are like all the other groups in SG. we are pushing it to the limit and taking the music to fairs, festivals, and places where people who dont like SG music will here the “Message”.
Playing in bars i do the same thing. I can list all the amazing places i have traveled and played form bars, honky tonks, stadiums, churches, fairs it don’t matter. thats where the common man is, and thats where i attempt to get my music across to them. being a Christian is fun, playing music is fun. i cant remember who said this but if i do i will post it. But it was a very successful Christian artist. He said there is no such thing as “Christian music, or Gospel music. Only music with Christian lyrics.” i believe that to be true.
I want to challenge anyone. this is not a sales pitch although i will sound like one. But either you come to Monument QT show, and or you buy the live DVD/CD that will be out next month and see for yourself. I doubt anyone will watch our show and say that the band is boring, or over doing it. and as far as vocals go, we all work together. when we get “INTO” the music so do the singers. I can only encourage you to see for your self. if you think a concert is something that is reverent then you may share the same opinion as deon. if you enjoy a great show, with a live band that cares about the music they play. then you will have a great night at our show.
Wow, Jeremy, Monument is the group that I was referring to in this thread. I reckon that most of the desenters on this thread are a part of Monument also. I have been a very big supporter of what Monument is doing, so once again, your ideas of me are 100% off base. You are very young and have no idea of what makes up the SGM genre. I saw that you are a member of Roadmark, a country band from their MySpace.
It is good to understand that you are saying that you were not jumping up and down in enthusiastic praise and worship, but rather getting into the music. This is not what you were saying before. Monument is pushing the envelope when it comes to thinking outside the box of taking the music to fairs and the like, and even bringing some country music into your program, but you are NOT pushing the envelope musically.
You are not setting any standards with the music you are playing. The Monument Band sounds like any other three piece SG band.. Now, when my eyes are drifting from the singers, who have the words of the songs, but bouncing musicians, then the band is being a distraction. Sorry, that’s just a fact. The Band is given a special spot in each program to shine and do their thing. They can jump, bounce, turn somersaults that’s fine. When the band is being featured they can do what they want, however, when the group is performing, it’s time for the band to be that dreaded word, “accompanists”.
As I said before, if all musicians had your attitude about live music, there would be even fewer bands than there are. I did find it interesting too that you find reverence in Gospel music to be a joke. Thanks for letting the real YOU come out.
Sir Deon,
I thought your view of this young drummer was interesting. Especially when you said something to the effect of “I wonder how much worshiping and praising this young drummer is doing playing country music in bars.” You know what, that is a interesting point. A bold point. But I will have to agree with drum stix when he says this is where the common man is. When Jesus ministered to people, he ate with “sinners.” You know they called Jesus a glutton and a drunkard just because he did things like “go to bars” and “talk with common man.” Now I dare not touch the issue of Christians goings to bars or drinking or any of that hairy topic. But I will say this it is up to each Christian to decide this for himself. So if you don’t feel comfortable playing country music in a bar don’t. But never should you insult someone praising the lord in bar. If you truly beileve that the only place we worship is by singing gospel songs I will have to disagree. But I doubt very strongly that is your point. So let me say this, you must first define what worship is. Paul defines it as this, “Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God - this is your spiritual act of worship.” This means our entire sinful, wretched human lives are to be offered as living sacrifices. That means our existence through Christ is an act of worship. And if this young drummer goes, “as Christ did” to the place of the common man. And has fun visiting and playing music for people. Then this is apart of his spiritual act of worship. Now I am saying he is or isn’t worshiping Christ no, because I do not know his heart, nor do you, nor does any man. So before we attack his character, and whether he worships God in a bar, we should stop and think. He very well could be, but we are not God and have no idea.
Now on to the “jumping” issue. Music and dancing have gone hand in hand since biblical days. If someone as a musician enjoys the music, why not “jump” or dance. I have seen plenty vocalist do this. Now if these musicians compliment the main show “the vocalists.” Why not dance. And yes, jumping straight up and down, sideways, or whatever. Doesn’t matter, its dancing. And I have already addressed why it doesn’t take away from the vocalist but enhances it. But Let me end with what I said previously.
Are you just a vocalist worried about a live band taking away the show, or something else. I really don’t know. Deon you said, “If I felt that these band members were worshiping God with their jumping antics, I would think differently, but that is not what’s coming across at all to me.†“Jumping antics,“really… I’ve seen more southern gospel groups with $6,000 rhinestone suits, shining in the lights of the stage, then southern gospel groups with jumping live bands. Before you start to criticize the work, the fruit, the worship of these musicians, you should look at some bigger problems in the industry. Jumping, dancing, playing music, singing are worshiping. There are bigger fish to fry my friend. Leave distractions to the rhinestones not the worship of a live band.
Are you also a part of the Monument band? Your attitude seems to be mirroring Jeremy. Do you really expect me to believe that you are praising God while you are singing beer songs in a bar? Again, I was born at night, but not last night. Jeremy isn’t claiming to be going to the bars to sing for the Lord. He’s going there to make a living. Your argument has gone off the deep end.
I guess your haven’t been around long enough to have seen my argument for singing Gospel music anywhere we can. I’m for singing the Gospel in bars, fairs, political events, even gay gatherings, IF I’m going to spread the Gospel. That is not Jeremy was talking about, and I have a hunch that’s not what you are talking about either.
YOU also show your limited amount of knowledge about SGM when you say you have seen more SG groups with $6,000 rhinestone suits and shining lights on stage than with jumping band members. The only group singing with rhinestone suits that I know of is Monument, and I’m trying as hard as I can to GET SG artist to USE lighting to make better programs.
Lastly, you said it right, IF these musicians compliment the vocalists…... they don’t they distract from the vocalists. That has been my point in all this discussion. Bands are like Baritone singers (I am one). They are there to blend, not stick out like a sore thumb.
I mentioned yesterday in my post that I hoped people would start posting again so we could have some lively discussions. WOW!!! What lively discussions we have had just on this one subject. I’m glad you haven’t backed down, Deon. I agree 100% with you. When a “band” is playing with a vocal group, they accompany the voices and should not over-power them. I’m a piano player, but I have never in many, many years of accompanying vocalists have I ever tried to take anything away from them by “showing off” or playing too loud. When I play a piano solo, I can play the song upside down and backwards, because it is a solo. Any antics that I might do can happen then. Never when vocalists are singing would I detract from their performance.
No Deon,
I am in no way affiliated with this Monument group. But since everyone seems to boasting their credentials let me give you some of mine. I have been in the music industry for years. I have worked with Christian music, Rock music, Country Music, and have gotten to know all sorts of musicians, artists, and gospel singers included throughout the years. You don’t think I have been around long enough. Well friend that is because you have no idea who I am. I have worked with all sorts of music, including Gospel. My father was a southern Baptist Preacher, so growing up Southern Gospel was huge and I loved it. That carried on through my adulthood. So don’t go insulting mine and everyone’s credentials. I have no doubt that you have a great amount of knowledge about the SG world.
But you think my biblical arguments have gone off the deep end. By me bringing scripture into the matter, and defending someone as worshiping Christ with there life, is going off the deep end. And no I do not show my limited knowledge of gospel music, tell me more than one gospel band that has the musicians “rocking out” or jumping up and down. I can show you a 100 wearing flashy suits. But that is besides the point. And beer songs… ha ha ha. Don’t get me started. You seem to have a different opinion of what worship is. And It is not just telling someone about Jesus, or singing about Jesus. We minister to people and worship Christ in our daily lives, going to the grocery store, going to work, going to bars, anywhere! Just simply loving people. Now I bring up biblical arguments, because we are referring to the Southern Gospel gengre. I am a fan of all music, from rock, to hip-hop, to bluegrass, to gospel. I have no doubt you don’t limit yourself to just gospel either. But this is a gospel forum, so I bring the Gospel to it.
Now friend we might just not see eye to eye on the idea of worship. But I respect your opinion on this topic of Live band. I feel you are missing the point. Playing instruments live have always been more magical in every genre including SG. Now I do realize many groups can’t always afford a band to go on the road. My Point is not that tracks are the enemy. My point is that a live band is NOT the enemy. This includes live bands that enjoy the music, the worship, the dancing and what not. When people are excited about something it is contagious. So if a band is excited about the music they are playing so is the audience. If vocalist are excited about the message. So is the audience. Its a two lane street at a show, so get excited about it.
We as musicians and people who get “into” the music we play are not soloing over every song. we simply play the tunes much like recorded, but with feeling. and with that feeling and joy we get from doing it we might jump around. but who really cares, why can people enjoy music for music and not criticize people for how and what they play.
I guess I’m the real “Band Nazi”. “Who cares…? I do. I love bands who play well and together with the vocals being up front. I manage our group and what I say caries the weight of law, it’s my way or the highway. Our piano player just laughs and she does her thing magnificently and always complements our vocals as a group or solo, I can rely on her to do what is always musically right for the mood and venue. Not every musician has the skill and abilities to do that, or to understand that it’s not all about them. In this genera it about the vocals.
One of the best drummers playing today is Mike Hopper, to see him play on “Jerusalem” well that is a truly worshipful experience, he does it with dignity, respect and in worshipful way and frankly he just tears the skins apart, what Mike adds to that wonderful song is beyond anything you can imagine.
I know that is going to make some of the musicians loose what little minds they have left, but you play for me, that pretty much it. Now, if you don’t want to play with my group, fine, no problem. However I don’t want the band to be jumping up and down or dancing on stage when we are in concert, I want them to sit or stand still, play well, have dinner and go home. I personally don’t know of anyone in fancy suits with sparklie stuff all over them either, but we are in Southern California.
We, the singers move when we are on stage, we actually stage and block our moves in advance so as to make everything appear as natural movement. Deon, we use lighting where it’s available to our advantage.
Sorry, I forgot who wrote this… Until more SG groups have GOOD bands that travel with them, I’ll choose to enjoy their music in the comfort of my home and car. I’ll make you a promise, the minute we can draw 500 fans who will pay $35.00 per ticket, I’ll have a live band added to our piano player. Until then, four or five good voices and a wonderful piano player will just have to do.
Sgmconnection
The industry is changing, and the most part not for the better. True to a degree. This is not all the groups fault, as the fans cause it too. A lot of the “talent†everyone seems to be crazy over now, is nothing more than studio fixed vocals, let the same group have to walk out and sing with a piano, and they could not do it. Some can… and are great at it, but as for the bands go, live music adds to a performance, as long as it’s under control. I think that is exactly the point.
My thought is… Anyone on earth can carry a tune with a track with good stacks… oh, I so-o-o disagree, I hear groups who can’t keep time, can’t memorize lyrics, singers who can’t find their pitch and don’t have the brains to shut up, get on key, on pitch and in time. Tracks and stacks and live bands can’t make a bad singer any better than they are. This is another problem facing SGM… The below average group, who thinks they are great. That honestly is about 20% of all groups in all genres, not just SGM
drum_stix_1018
Being reverent IS NOT!!!! a style of music, it is not a volume of sound, it is not they way you get “into†the music. Reverence IS how your heart is, how your walk with God is, its spending personal time with God. It is also an out ward expression, a show of respect, if you will.
But it was a very successful Christian artist. He said there is no such thing as “Christian music, or Gospel music. Only music with Christian lyrics.†i believe that to be true. “I have always said the message is in the music.” ...and I know that to be true, it doesn’t matter what some so called artist says, you, me or someone else, it’s all semantics and the way we use the words is so we can be understood and revel the magic of the Word of the Lord.
I had much rather have live bands. I don’t care much at all in seeing a group that doesn’t have at least a partial band , but that doen’t mean that that group isn’t good. It just means i would wait and listen to their cd. i would not want to see them in person. this is only my opinion
I had much rather have live bands. I don’t care much at all in seeing a group that doesn’t have at least a partial band , but that doen’t mean that that group isn’t good. It just means i would wait and listen to their cd. i would not want to see them in person. this is only my opinion
Would you go see the band without the singers????? Would you go if the band was in an orchestra pit and you couldn’t see them, or behind curtains and you couldn’t see them? All I can say is that you are missing a whole lot of great Gospel singing. Would you just wait for the CD if the singers weren’t there? That just doesn’t seem like logical reasoning to me.
Lest anyone think that I was bashing Monument Quartet, as Jeremy thought that I would do, Monument is a very good quartet. Their band is as good as most Quartet bands and their Lead singer John Tidwell and Bass Brad Smith are both exceptional singers. Both are the energy of the group when they are on stage. By all means go to Monuments website or MySpace and get their new DVD as Jeremy was saying.
I’ll go ahead and get my name out, right now: LUCAS CASE. Former pianist for Monument.
Mr. Unthank: I disagreed with every comment you made (except this last one about buying MQ product). I lost a lot of respect for you and your site for those comments. First of all, age has nothing to do with experience!! You’re basicly just saying; you’re old. Well, I’m 20 and I could care less how old you are. I know a lot, but I also realize I will never quit learning. I look forward to learning everyday I wake up! Also, if you want to talk about a particluar band or group, get it out in your first post! It saves a lot of unneeded speculation, would you not agree? Monument Band ROCKS. Yes, ROCKS. I’ve also played in the KH Band, they also ROCK. Dennis Murphy is one of the best drummers/artists in ANY genre of music, and I emphasize ANY.
Live bands are a good thing, just ask ole’ Bill Gaither. Ask Steve French, Ray Dean Reese, Brian Free, and countless others, some who have passed…..
People who do not open their eyes and who do not want expand their mind, remind me of liberals….
I’ll go ahead and get my name out, right now: LUCAS CASE. Former pianist for Monument.
Mr. Unthank: I disagreed with every comment you made (except this last one about buying MQ product). I lost a lot of respect for you and your site for those comments. First of all, age has nothing to do with experience!! You’re basicly just saying; you’re old. Well, I’m 20 and I could care less how old you are. I know a lot, but I also realize I will never quit learning. I look forward to learning everyday I wake up! Also, if you want to talk about a particluar band or group, get it out in your first post! It saves a lot of unneeded speculation, would you not agree? Monument Band ROCKS. Yes, ROCKS. I’ve also played in the KH Band, they also ROCK. Dennis Murphy is one of the best drummers/artists in ANY genre of music, and I emphasize ANY.
Live bands are a good thing, just ask ole’ Bill Gaither. Ask Steve French, Ray Dean Reese, Brian Free, and countless others, some who have passed…..
People who do not open their eyes and who do not want expand their mind, remind me of liberals….
Lucas Case
Branson/Springfield, MO
Lucas, thanks for letting me know who you are. I’m trying to figure out just what I said that would cause you to lose respect for me or this site. I’ve never said that I do not like bands, if you really read every comment then you should have seen that. I didn’t want to make any bad connotations about Monument, so I didn’t mention a name, although I’ve seen the same thing in other bands. I even named some bands that I had great respect for. Did you not read that either?
I do get defensive with musicians who talk down to artists who use tracks. It is certainly immature and uncomely for musicians to do that. So, maybe you can explain to me why I’ve lost your respect for standing my ground about something that I feel strongly about against a young man who has practically no experience in SGM, but is telling me how I know nothing of the genre. Because I’m older than you or Jeremy doesn’t mean that I have all the answers, but your youthfulness certainly doesn’t mean that you and Jeremy have have any answers either. Now, history would tell us that with age comes some wisdom.
My years tell me that there is room for both live bands and tracks. Jeremy can’t find a place in the industry for any one who uses tracks, he thinks these groups are mediocre and fake. Is that what has caused me to lose your respect? Do you also have no respect for artist who use tracks?
Losing respect for the site? Isn’t this a Forums site (not a form site like Jeremy kept saying)? Isn’t it supposed to be the debating of different ideas? Now you have no respect for this site? I do not believe that I ever berated or lambasted Jeremy as he did me, so what’s with the losing respect thing?
So come on guys, is this what the youth of today is trying to say? If an elder in the industry says something that the younger set disagrees with then you have no respect for them. I hope that’s not what you are saying. I have thick skin guys, but I think that it’s time for the younger generation to develop some themselves.
Deon:
Here we are making speculations again by stating I don’t have respect for groups who use tracks. This is not the case. I have respect beyond any measure to Greater Vision, Booth Brothers, KPNR and others. I just want the older generation to open their minds to a now, much broader style of a live stage performance.
Respect. I do have respect to elders. So please, refrain from saying Jeremy and myself have no respect. We come from a much younger generation than you and several other SG lovers. But, we have always heard this…..“we need to appeal to the younger audience of today”. This statement is true. SG has taken on a whole new look to satisfy the younger audience. Crystal River, Crossway, KPNR, GVB, EHSS. And many more. What I am trying to point out to you is, if we can change the physical appearance of a group to satisfy a younger audience, why can’t our bands be more involved on stage to satisfy them as well? If you go to my college and ask a student to come hear a Southern Gospel group, good luck getting them to come. Ask them to come hear a band, watch out! Bands play a vital role in all genres of music, not just country or pop. I believe, if promoters and church venues paid more to the SG groups, those(most) groups would carry a band. Money is always an issue in SG music. Agreeable?
You should have more respect for the up-and-coming generation, and open your mind just a tad….....
Deon:
Here we are making speculations again by stating I don’t have respect for groups who use tracks. This is not the case. I have respect beyond any measure to Greater Vision, Booth Brothers, KPNR and others. I just want the older generation to open their minds to a now, much broader style of a live stage performance.
Respect. I do have respect to elders. So please, refrain from saying Jeremy and myself have no respect. We come from a much younger generation than you and several other SG lovers. But, we have always heard this…..“we need to appeal to the younger audience of today”. This statement is true. SG has taken on a whole new look to satisfy the younger audience. Crystal River, Crossway, KPNR, GVB, EHSS. And many more. What I am trying to point out to you is, if we can change the physical appearance of a group to satisfy a younger audience, why can’t our bands be more involved on stage to satisfy them as well? If you go to my college and ask a student to come hear a Southern Gospel group, good luck getting them to come. Ask them to come hear a band, watch out! Bands play a vital role in all genres of music, not just country or pop. I believe, if promoters and church venues paid more to the SG groups, those(most) groups would carry a band. Money is always an issue in SG music. Agreeable?
You should have more respect for the up-and-coming generation, and open your mind just a tad….....
Lucas,
You really need to read closer. I never speculated anything. I asked you questions, to see if you were of the same closed mindset of Jeremy, whom as I stated calls artists who use tracks mediocre and fake. It’s good to know that you, as a young person do not have the same thoughts as Jeremy. So, once again, I’ll say, I see room in this genre for both track based groups AND bands. So, where does the losing respect come from? What are you saying that is so far different from what I’ve said. My problem was not with live bands, but with the antics I’ve seen from several lately. Does that sound like I’m against live musicians? Not the way I see it.
Maybe a little background check on your part would educate you to the fact that I sing with my son and daughter, both in their twenties. I have an open mind to the thoughts of young people who have good ideas. I am not open though to those who have no vision other than their shortsightedness, such as defaming artists who use tracks. I believe that you and I could sit down and have a reasonable discussion. I do not believe that you would talk down to me as though I know nothing at all about this genre of music.
Respect goes both ways, and for you to assume that I do not respect the values of younger people is just wrong, however I need some respect from the youthful side.
Deon:
Let’s agree to disagree on a few aspects. I will be in Nashville next week for some personal business. I joined tonight to discuss on this forum, but I’m done posting. I have your cell/email, we’ll talk when I’m in town next week. Thank you for your insight/input on the subject.
