Excellent post. Modern day Republicans proclaiming their politics are more Christ-like than their opposing party’s are delusional at best.
Did you look at that website? If you cosinder that to be an excellent post, then a lot of suspicions have been confirmed. That little website distorted issues and used scripture so far out of context that it was funnier than Obama trying to give a Sunday school lesson. Seems a lot of democrats need classes in Hermeneutics. It is getting hard to find one that could teach, so maybe one of us conservatives should teach the class.
Sez the person that wants to make the issues of abortion and gay rights the defining characteristics of Christianity…:coolsmile:
Says the person who has no concern about abortion and gay rights in Christianity or politics.
Sez the person that support the party of Ted Haggard…and that “wide stance” dude..
Ted Haggard??????? He’s a fallen preacher, what’s he got to do with anything?
It’s your party that is anti-life and pro-gay. It’s the leaders of your party propagating abortion and the gay lifestyle.
No, Haggard is much more than a fallen preacher. He has strong political ties to the Bush White House, and is an icon of modern social conservatism: criticize the morals of all the while being guilty of doing what they criticize others of doing.
What world are you living in? Haggard has no ties to the Bush White House. Don’t know where you’re tryng to head with this one, but you’re out in left field…. no pun intended.
You could look it up yourself, but I know you want..
“As president of the National Association of Evangelicals, the Rev. Ted Haggard has advised the White House on issues ranging from judicial appointments to steel tariffs, but he also sought to widen the agenda of Christian evangelicals into areas the Bush administration _and many of his Christian brethren _ would rather avoid. “
Of couse the White House played it down when the story broke
You’re right, I wouldn’t have looked that up. I thought you were talking about something current. I don’t know what you’re trying to say here. Haggard is no longer an adviser for the Bush administration. He wasn’t kept around (like they do in the Democrat Party) after he was outed. You accuse the whole Republican Party of being guilty over one man’s indiscretions. The Dems find these things out about their people and re-elect them. There’s quite a difference here. Again, I’m not sure that I understand what you’re trying to say.
You must have run out of RNC talking points and turned to personal attacks. Oh well, at least you made a post without some whacky generalization about liberals..
What personal attacks, I was trying to humorously tell you that your posts aren’t making any logical sense today.
Excellent post. Modern day Republicans proclaiming their politics are more Christ-like than their opposing party’s are delusional at best.
Did you look at that website? If you cosinder that to be an excellent post, then a lot of suspicions have been confirmed. That little website distorted issues and used scripture so far out of context that it was funnier than Obama trying to give a Sunday school lesson. Seems a lot of democrats need classes in Hermeneutics. It is getting hard to find one that could teach, so maybe one of us conservatives should teach the class.
Sez the person that wants to make the issues of abortion and gay rights the defining characteristics of Christianity…:coolsmile:
They are not the defining characteristic of Christianity, but our stance on those issues do speak to the core of who we are and whether or not we are reflecting the image of a God who loves us and knew us before we were born. The defining characteristics of Christianity are those that reflect the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It is totally fair to ask how God feels about such issues as abortion and gay rights. The evidence is in His Word. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable.
When the righties quit being pro-war, they might have some credibility. I would suggest classes in Hermeneutics.
Steve, you are hillarious. First of all, I don’t know of any Christian (right or left) that loves war. However, I am pro-protection. I also am pro-accomplishment. I believe that when we enter into something we should finnish it. Now, God hates war, but He has been known to work through war. Read your Bible. Maybe you should start asking the question, “What good can God bring from this war?” However, I don’t read of any instance where He has worked through abortion or homosexuality. Maybe you should be the first student to sign up for that Hermeneutics class.
Aas long as you use the phrase pro-abortion and pro-gay, I’ll use the phrase pro-war. Seems fair enough to me.
And just because you don’t know of a case where God worked through abortion or homosexuality doesn’t mean it hasn’t and cannot happen. Do you think that people that found Christ thought Kirk Talley’s ministry are really saved?
Anyone that finds Christ is saved because of the redemptive work of Christ, not the actions of Kirk Talley or anyone else. Does Kirk have a testimony, yes. But the testimony comes because of the redemptive power of God, not anything from Kirk. The point was, nothing good comes from sin. Everything good comes from God. Now, how do I see God being able to use this war? A free Iraq is a people that will be more open to the message of Christ. A free people are free to hear the redemptive message that you and I are talking about. An aborted baby can not give a testimony, its dead. A gay marriage undermines the sanctity of marriage and is not ordained by God. Again, I feel that God hates war. However, there are many Biblical accounts of where He worked in the midst of war. Where can you point to Him working in the midst of sin (gay marriage and abortion)? The only thing you can point to as good is the actual redemption from that sin. Nothing good came from the sin. The good came from the work of redemption. That is the testimony (deliverance), and frankly one that all Christians share.
Yeah…right. This poll gives the maximum “Jesus points” to heavy taxation for “Matthew 19:21 Sell that thou hast and give to the poor”
Um…the verse doesn’t say, “Give your money to a bloated government that will waste 90% of it before getting a few dollars to the people who have managed to fool the government into thinking they’re poor while actual poor people continue to live in squalor.”
It says to give TO the poor.
How can you have such a low opinion of the government that presides over the greatest nation on Earth?
But to follow your thinking, God said homosexuality is a sin…He did not say to vote for a candidate that is anti Gay. Many Christians feel the need to vote in politicians that advocate their religious beliefs…that would certainly include helping the poor, imo. AMF, Jesus seemed much more interested in helping the needy than He did preventing gay people from getting married. I don’t understand why one would want our government to legislate certain Christian principles and beliefs, yet ignore the part about feeding the hungry and helping the sick and needy.
Steve,
Yeah, I underlined part of your post for a reason. If gay marriage is legalized, then the goverment is legislating a Christian principle and belief by saying that the marriage has to be recognized. As a Christian, do you believe that marriage is ordained by God? I do. Why would He ordain a marriage based in SIN? One final note, is it the goverments responsibility to help the sick an needy or yours? As a Christian, you are to help those. Jesus nor his disciples depended on the goverment of Rome to do for them what they were called to do. You want to help the poor and sick, donate to a faith based program that is doing the job correctly (Hey your guy recently decided he is pro faith-based inniative “for now”). Don’t depend on the goverment, who is incapable of doing this right, to do it for you. Maybe I’m beginning to understand the “liberal Christian” mindset. Maybe it is based in laziness. “I am supposed to help others, so I’ll have the gov. do it for me so I don’t have to leave the comfort of my recliner.” Conservatives are just as concerned about the poor and sick as the liberals are. We have differences in opinions on the solutions. I believe that income and wealth redistribution are not the answer. The answer is in people that are willing to take an active role in helping, reaching out, and rehabilitatiing those who need the help and pointing them to the God who can meet all their needs, not the goverment.
Excellent post. Modern day Republicans proclaiming their politics are more Christ-like than their opposing party’s are delusional at best.
Did you look at that website? If you cosinder that to be an excellent post, then a lot of suspicions have been confirmed. That little website distorted issues and used scripture so far out of context that it was funnier than Obama trying to give a Sunday school lesson. Seems a lot of democrats need classes in Hermeneutics. It is getting hard to find one that could teach, so maybe one of us conservatives should teach the class.
Sez the person that wants to make the issues of abortion and gay rights the defining characteristics of Christianity…:coolsmile:
They are not the defining characteristic of Christianity, but our stance on those issues do speak to the core of who we are and whether or not we are reflecting the image of a God who loves us and knew us before we were born. The defining characteristics of Christianity are those that reflect the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It is totally fair to ask how God feels about such issues as abortion and gay rights. The evidence is in His Word. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable.
When the righties quit being pro-war, they might have some credibility. I would suggest classes in Hermeneutics.
Steve, you are hillarious. First of all, I don’t know of any Christian (right or left) that loves war. However, I am pro-protection. I also am pro-accomplishment. I believe that when we enter into something we should finnish it. Now, God hates war, but He has been known to work through war. Read your Bible. Maybe you should start asking the question, “What good can God bring from this war?” However, I don’t read of any instance where He has worked through abortion or homosexuality. Maybe you should be the first student to sign up for that Hermeneutics class.
Aas long as you use the phrase pro-abortion and pro-gay, I’ll use the phrase pro-war. Seems fair enough to me.
And just because you don’t know of a case where God worked through abortion or homosexuality doesn’t mean it hasn’t and cannot happen. Do you think that people that found Christ thought Kirk Talley’s ministry are really saved?
Anyone that finds Christ is saved because of the redemptive work of Christ, not the actions of Kirk Talley or anyone else. Does Kirk have a testimony, yes. But the testimony comes because of the redemptive power of God, not anything from Kirk. The point was, nothing good comes from sin. Everything good comes from God. Now, how do I see God being able to use this war? A free Iraq is a people that will be more open to the message of Christ. A free people are free to hear the redemptive message that you and I are talking about. An aborted baby can not give a testimony, its dead. A gay marriage undermines the sanctity of marriage and is not ordained by God. Again, I feel that God hates war. However, there are many Biblical accounts of where He worked in the midst of war. Where can you point to Him working in the midst of sin (gay marriage and abortion)? The only thing you can point to as good is the actual redemption from that sin. Nothing good came from the sin. The good came from the work of redemption. That is the testimony (deliverance), and frankly one that all Christians share.
Ha, you’re jusy trying to justify bombing innocent people, basically. You’re gonna have to do better than that if you’re gonig to convince anyone this war is somehow holy.
Excellent post. Modern day Republicans proclaiming their politics are more Christ-like than their opposing party’s are delusional at best.
Did you look at that website? If you cosinder that to be an excellent post, then a lot of suspicions have been confirmed. That little website distorted issues and used scripture so far out of context that it was funnier than Obama trying to give a Sunday school lesson. Seems a lot of democrats need classes in Hermeneutics. It is getting hard to find one that could teach, so maybe one of us conservatives should teach the class.
Sez the person that wants to make the issues of abortion and gay rights the defining characteristics of Christianity…:coolsmile:
Says the person who has no concern about abortion and gay rights in Christianity or politics.
Sez the person that support the party of Ted Haggard…and that “wide stance” dude..
Ted Haggard??????? He’s a fallen preacher, what’s he got to do with anything?
It’s your party that is anti-life and pro-gay. It’s the leaders of your party propagating abortion and the gay lifestyle.
No, Haggard is much more than a fallen preacher. He has strong political ties to the Bush White House, and is an icon of modern social conservatism: criticize the morals of all the while being guilty of doing what they criticize others of doing.
What world are you living in? Haggard has no ties to the Bush White House. Don’t know where you’re tryng to head with this one, but you’re out in left field…. no pun intended.
You could look it up yourself, but I know you want..
“As president of the National Association of Evangelicals, the Rev. Ted Haggard has advised the White House on issues ranging from judicial appointments to steel tariffs, but he also sought to widen the agenda of Christian evangelicals into areas the Bush administration _and many of his Christian brethren _ would rather avoid. “
Of couse the White House played it down when the story broke
You’re right, I wouldn’t have looked that up. I thought you were talking about something current. I don’t know what you’re trying to say here. Haggard is no longer an adviser for the Bush administration. He wasn’t kept around (like they do in the Democrat Party) after he was outed. You accuse the whole Republican Party of being guilty over one man’s indiscretions. The Dems find these things out about their people and re-elect them. There’s quite a difference here. Again, I’m not sure that I understand what you’re trying to say.
Yeah, both dems and reps do bad things. But it’s the Republicans that try to convince us they are more Chrislike. This is called hypocrisy and self Righteousness.
Yeah…right. This poll gives the maximum “Jesus points” to heavy taxation for “Matthew 19:21 Sell that thou hast and give to the poor”
Um…the verse doesn’t say, “Give your money to a bloated government that will waste 90% of it before getting a few dollars to the people who have managed to fool the government into thinking they’re poor while actual poor people continue to live in squalor.”
It says to give TO the poor.
How can you have such a low opinion of the government that presides over the greatest nation on Earth?
But to follow your thinking, God said homosexuality is a sin…He did not say to vote for a candidate that is anti Gay. Many Christians feel the need to vote in politicians that advocate their religious beliefs…that would certainly include helping the poor, imo. AMF, Jesus seemed much more interested in helping the needy than He did preventing gay people from getting married. I don’t understand why one would want our government to legislate certain Christian principles and beliefs, yet ignore the part about feeding the hungry and helping the sick and needy.
Steve,
Yeah, I underlined part of your post for a reason. If gay marriage is legalized, then the goverment is legislating a Christian principle and belief by saying that the marriage has to be recognized. As a Christian, do you believe that marriage is ordained by God? I do. Why would He ordain a marriage based in SIN? One final note, is it the goverments responsibility to help the sick an needy or yours? As a Christian, you are to help those. Jesus nor his disciples depended on the goverment of Rome to do for them what they were called to do. You want to help the poor and sick, donate to a faith based program that is doing the job correctly (Hey your guy recently decided he is pro faith-based inniative “for now”). Don’t depend on the goverment, who is incapable of doing this right, to do it for you. Maybe I’m beginning to understand the “liberal Christian” mindset. Maybe it is based in laziness. “I am supposed to help others, so I’ll have the gov. do it for me so I don’t have to leave the comfort of my recliner.” Conservatives are just as concerned about the poor and sick as the liberals are. We have differences in opinions on the solutions. I believe that income and wealth redistribution are not the answer. The answer is in people that are willing to take an active role in helping, reaching out, and rehabilitatiing those who need the help and pointing them to the God who can meet all their needs, not the goverment.
I think marriage should be ordained by God. Often it isn’t. In this free society, even non-believers can get married…or perhaps you are suggesting the government should tell us what is ordained by God? Seems a little odd in that you were complaining in another thread that the government does a poor job with entitlements…
Having the government be proactive in helping the poor is not more lazy than having an army to fight your battles. Most people do not go to foreign battlefields and fight, they have the government organize a military and do it. Does that make everyone who does not fight lazy? In Jesus time the concept of a government of, by and for the people was not an option..I know the government has more resources than I do to help people. so I think Jesus would want to use any and all available means to spead love and kindness, including a proactive government.
Yeah…right. This poll gives the maximum “Jesus points” to heavy taxation for “Matthew 19:21 Sell that thou hast and give to the poor”
Um…the verse doesn’t say, “Give your money to a bloated government that will waste 90% of it before getting a few dollars to the people who have managed to fool the government into thinking they’re poor while actual poor people continue to live in squalor.”
It says to give TO the poor.
How can you have such a low opinion of the government that presides over the greatest nation on Earth?
But to follow your thinking, God said homosexuality is a sin…He did not say to vote for a candidate that is anti Gay. Many Christians feel the need to vote in politicians that advocate their religious beliefs…that would certainly include helping the poor, imo. AMF, Jesus seemed much more interested in helping the needy than He did preventing gay people from getting married. I don’t understand why one would want our government to legislate certain Christian principles and beliefs, yet ignore the part about feeding the hungry and helping the sick and needy.
Steve,
Yeah, I underlined part of your post for a reason. If gay marriage is legalized, then the goverment is legislating a Christian principle and belief by saying that the marriage has to be recognized. As a Christian, do you believe that marriage is ordained by God? I do. Why would He ordain a marriage based in SIN? One final note, is it the goverments responsibility to help the sick an needy or yours? As a Christian, you are to help those. Jesus nor his disciples depended on the goverment of Rome to do for them what they were called to do. You want to help the poor and sick, donate to a faith based program that is doing the job correctly (Hey your guy recently decided he is pro faith-based inniative “for now”). Don’t depend on the goverment, who is incapable of doing this right, to do it for you. Maybe I’m beginning to understand the “liberal Christian” mindset. Maybe it is based in laziness. “I am supposed to help others, so I’ll have the gov. do it for me so I don’t have to leave the comfort of my recliner.” Conservatives are just as concerned about the poor and sick as the liberals are. We have differences in opinions on the solutions. I believe that income and wealth redistribution are not the answer. The answer is in people that are willing to take an active role in helping, reaching out, and rehabilitatiing those who need the help and pointing them to the God who can meet all their needs, not the goverment.
I think marriage should be ordained by God. Often it isn’t. In this free society, even non-believers can get married…or perhaps you are suggesting the government should tell us what is ordained by God? Seems a little odd in that you were complaining in another thread that the government does a poor job with entitlements…
Having the government be proactive in helping the poor is not more lazy than having an army to fight your battles. Most people do not go to foreign battlefields and fight, they have the government organize a military and do it. Does that make everyone who does not fight lazy? In Jesus time the concept of a government of, by and for the people was not an option..I know the government has more resources than I do to help people. so I think Jesus would want to use any and all available means to spead love and kindness, including a proactive government.
Steve, (Bless your heart)
In one of those previous threads, a good definition for entitlements has been posted by a poster with a much better understanding than either of us probably have, however that has nothing to do with this discussion. I am not suggesting the Gov. tell us what is ordained by God, merely the Gov. keep its nose out of it. Legalizing gay marriage puts us on dangerous grounds because it opens the doors to Pandora’s box. Finally, our military is completely volunteer. Me paying taxes to support failed entitlements is not. What is volunteer is me donating my time, money, etc to a program that helps those that are less fortunate.
One last observation, quit trying to change the subject. The question I pose to you is, how can you support a candidate that is very anti-Christian and still call yourself a Christian? You can’t really defend your position, so you try to change the conversation to an area where you feel that you are more equipped to argue (and that is debatable). I am so looking forward to the day when you offer anything of substance rather than just sitting and spinning in the mud.
Steve, (Bless your heart)
In one of those previous threads, a good definition for entitlements has been posted by a poster with a much better understanding than either of us probably have, however that has nothing to do with this discussion.
He echoed much of what you had already said, and I happen to disagree.
SGmusician - 16 July 2008 11:15 AM
[
I am not suggesting the Gov. tell us what is ordained by God, merely the Gov. keep its nose out of it. Legalizing gay marriage puts us on dangerous grounds because it opens the doors to Pandora’s box.
How would a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage be getting the government out if it? Can you explain that? You either want govenment intervention, or you do not.
Also, when you say things like “Pandora’s box”, that doesn’t tell us very much.
SGmusician - 16 July 2008 11:15 AM
Finally, our military is completely volunteer.
Me paying taxes to support failed entitlements is not. What is volunteer is me donating my time, money, etc to a program that helps those that are less fortunate.
That is not a consistant argument in that your paying taxes to support the military is not volunteer, either. Try make valid comparisons, please.
SGmusician - 16 July 2008 11:15 AM
One last observation, quit trying to change the subject. The question I pose to you is, how can you support a candidate that is very anti-Christian and still call yourself a Christian?
I have already answered. I do seem to have to repeat myself a lot with you. ....
SGmusician - 16 July 2008 11:15 AM
You can’t really defend your position, so you try to change the conversation to an area where you feel that you are more equipped to argue (and that is debatable).
You’re drifting here…you should probably try to stay on topic.
You do repeat yourself a lot. You just never say anything. The military is full of volunteers. Not one was forced by the gov. to be in it. My tax payers dollars do go to support that, but that is part of the goverment’s job, protection. I don’t think it is the goverments job to redistribute wealth or income. As far as voting for an anti-Christian candidate, your answer was weak and void of any substance. That is why I posed the question again? Maybe you should quit spinning now. You’re just digging a deeper hole.
You do repeat yourself a lot. You just never say anything. The military is full of volunteers. Not one was forced by the gov. to be in it.
But you are forced by the government to pay taxes to support it. That is the issue. I do not like the war, but I have to pay for it. You do not like entitlements, but you have to pay for them. The fact that service in the military is voluntary is irrevelant, just as it is irrevelant that those who get foods stamps do so of their own volition. (please make sure you understand what I just said before responding…thanks)
SGmusician - 16 July 2008 12:17 PM
My tax payers dollars do go to support that, but that is part of the goverment’s job, protection.
Also, part of the government’s job is provide the general welfare of its citizens. I am glad there are social services…it is what seperates developed nations from third world poverty stricken nations. Protection of life is important…we are fortunate to live in a society where we can strive to elevate the quality of life as well.
SGmusician - 16 July 2008 12:17 PM
I don’t think it is the goverments job to redistribute wealth or income.
I don’t think it’s the government’s job to invade countries, particularly if they are no threat to us.
SGmusician - 16 July 2008 12:17 PM
As far as voting for an anti-Christian candidate, your answer was weak and void of any substance.
Your assertion that there is an “anti-Christian” candidate is a non starter, and your two issues are not what defines Christianity. So you have yet to make any valid point that I can refute…
SGmusician - 16 July 2008 12:17 PM
That is why I posed the question again?
I think you posed the question again because you choose to ignore the answer, and/or you only accept answers that fit your limited pre conceptions. Just sayin’
SGmusician - 16 July 2008 12:17 PM
Maybe you should quit spinning now. You’re just digging a deeper hole.
I don’t think it’s getting any lighter in that hole you have your head buried in.
Did you look at that website? If you cosinder that to be an excellent post, then a lot of suspicions have been confirmed. That little website distorted issues and used scripture so far out of context that it was funnier than Obama trying to give a Sunday school lesson. Seems a lot of democrats need classes in Hermeneutics. It is getting hard to find one that could teach, so maybe one of us conservatives should teach the class.
