
Monthly Articles02 Jun 2009
A Thorn By Any Other Name
![]() We’re all familiar with the famous quote, “A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.” It originated in the play “Romeo and Juliet,” written by William Shakespeare. Reader Comments
I'll try to jump in here with the auto analogy.
Autos = Music Ford = Music business pickup truck = SG Sports car = contemporary The pickup truck (SG) doesn't have as large a market share as some others. There are still plenty who like them. However, in pickups (SG) (some prefer certain options and not others. Some want full size, some not. Some want shells, some not. Some want four wheel drive, some not. Some want auto, some not. They are all still pickups, but appeal to different people. The person who wants to only haul things may have different needs than those who have a family, or who goes mudding, or who wants a shiny one to show off, or to go camping, or to take a long trip. Some like the old SG that was around back in the fifties. These people might want the old basic truck without all the new gadgets like an mp3 player etc. Others might want one with all the current options, fully loaded. They might not like the old boxy look of the tried and true. The fact remains is that SG HAS changed some since the twenties. We have tons more instruments strings, drums and the like) higher production values, much more equipment and technology etc. Compare a 78 from the thirties or whenever to a CD and tell me they are the same. Even if you compared traditional groups, there will be SOME difference. Admittedly, the traditionalists have changed less, but I am not sure there is anyone out there who sounds the same. Maybe someone like the ChuckWagon Gang has kept a lot of what they did, but I am not sure. Nonetheless, I am not saying we should call a Porsche a pickup truck and totally get away from everything that makes SG SG, but that doesn't mean we can't have pickups with air conditioning, power steering etc. to those who want them.
Commented by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) On 06/06/2009
By the way, I realize the point about a rose is still a rose no matter what you call it, but by the same token there are different colors of roses. Red is the primary one, but some prefer others. Progressive SG is a different color of rose. It is still a rose, but is different enough to warrant an explanation so people know what they are getting instead of ordering roses to be delivered and being disappointed.
Commented by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) On 06/06/2009
I don't think, Susan, that Nick is inferring that people should scour the Goodwill stores in their neighborhoods trying to find some old Statesmen records and never listen to anything produced after 1961.
His comments are painting with a broader brush because he is saying (dear Lord)...."If we IDENTIFY other forms of music as Southern Gospel when if fact it is NOT.. we will eventually LOSE that unique style called SGM." Evidently, he feels there is a danger that this will happen. To paint him in a caricature light as someone who is stuck in the past is missing the point of someone who is making a very valid point.
Commented by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) On 06/06/2009
With all due respect, perhaps you should check your reading glasses. (And I am old enough to refer to your age) Nick did say, "There is only a place for those who are committed to the art form, and the art form is clearly defined by listening to groups like the Cathedral Quartet. If you want to sing music like that, whether you are a quartet, or a trio, or a mixed group, then you are welcome." I don't have any problem interpreting that statement. I would like to know where on a piece of sheet music is it written what style the song should be sung in? Does it say quartets only, no country, no bluegrass, no mountain! Does it say, 4 men, matching suits and piano only?
Susan Unthank
Commented by Susan Unthank On 06/06/2009
"I guess I have to show my age and give a history lesson". Again - it was not meant to be disrespectful. Mr. Jones and I have talked before in person and this is not the first issue that we have disagreed on.
Commented by Chris D. Unthank On 06/06/2009
Why is the thorn being discussed as a bad thing for the rose? The thorn is not meant to be a hindrance to the rose - rather it is a form of protection - a way to keep the rose a beautiful part of the whole bush. That - to me - is what other fringe parts of SG are. They are a way that we can keep (i.e. protect) the heritage of SG so that it can survive, thrive, and remain a beautiful part of this industry and remain the "core" part of what makes this music so great. There are going to be some people who don't like the thorns - but lovers of roses will know that the thorns are necessary in order for the rose to survive.
Commented by Chris D. Unthank On 06/06/2009
Well first of all, truth be told Susan, I don't own a pair of reading glasses, nor do I recall mentioning my age.
I do not disagree with anything being said by any postings, including yours, your son's and others who disagree with Nick. That's what a forum is about - discussion. Sometimes discussion includes disagreeing with someone's opinion. If you will read my postings, with or without YOUR reading glasses, you will see that the thing that is frustrating me isn't that people are disagreeing with Nick, but missing his point. MISSING HIS POINT. Sing whatever music you enjoy... he is saying.. but if you want to keep this style of music we are calling southern gospel... don't dilute it. Is it so difficult to see what he is saying??? Or is there some other reason? Nick did say, "There is only a place for those who are committed to the art form, and the art form is clearly defined by listening to groups like the Cathedral Quartet. If you want to sing music like that, whether you are a quartet, or a trio, or a mixed group, then you are welcome." What part of that am I missing? That's exactly what he said, and exactly what I have been saying that he said. If you, or anyone you know, is performing music that is on the "fringe" or may not be exactly described as SGM....of course his words would sting. I don't believe he is saying people should ONLY PERFORM SOUTHERN GOSPEL MUSIC THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE CATHEDRALS... is HE???? No. I believe (sigh..) he is simply saying...that this is the style of music that gave this industry it's beginning... and he believes that because OTHER STYLES OF MUSIC are being LABELED Southern Gospel.. eventually it will bring an end to music like The Cathedrals... the music that started this industry. I, personally, don't care who sings what or where they sing it. But I feel bad when people misinterpret what someone is actually saying. It's ok to disagree, but disagree with what HE ACTUALLY SAID.. not what you think he said.
Commented by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) On 06/06/2009
Contrast this article to Matt's 1949 Ford article. Seems like he and Nick are saying just the opposite. Was that the intent? Two views on the same subject?
Anyway, I agree more with Matt and not so much with Nick. SGM needs to be a big tent. It has traditionally been just that. I remind Nick of a few Cathedral songs & ablums. Like: - The Cathedral Quartet WITH STRINGS album - The Cathedral Quartet WITH BRASS album - Their marvelous hit song "YESTERDAY" which featured Roy Tremble and George Younce which is beautiful music but sounds like something the Beattles wrote more than it does something George Younce wrote. - Their very successful "MEXICO" song with latin beat. Like the Statesmen and the Oak Ridge Quartet, the Cathedrals blurred the lines whenever they wanted to but they also knew how to nail a traditional southern gospel song and to set the standard that others would follow. Ernie Haas and Scott Fowler have walked the same line for they learned from the masters and they have developed strong quartets that honor the tradition while blurring the lines when it suited them. God love them. I do. Cheers, Tony
Tony Partigianoni http://www.ksgm.com/images/gospel.gif Pure SGM & Quartet-Style Singing
Commented by Tony On 06/07/2009
MD, I think you are missing part of the point too. Nick also complained about calling music such as Progressive Southern Gospel because he said
"If an artist doesn’t fit into the mold of traditional Southern Gospel they just call it “Something Southern Gospel” you know like, Bluegrass Southern Gospel, or Christian Country Southern Gospel or my favorite…Progressive Southern Gospel. See, he is acting like that shouldn't be done and yet he doesn't want it called Southern Gospel either if it doesn't fit the mold. That is done in lots of genres. You have traditional country, urban country, rock, classic rock, grunge rock etc. To me giving it that extra description makes it easier to know which type of SG one likes. It is like different flavors of Ice Cream. They are all Ice Cream, but when you get into more detail, you get the flavors. What if someone said Vanilla Ice Cream was the only one that could be called Ice Cream? Once again McKameys and Inspirations are called SG. Nick even did so. Yet compare them to the Cathedrals, Gold City, the Stamps, Gaither Vocal Band etc. and you see a big difference. Don't get me wrong, the last four groups are some of my favorites. I also like the Greenes, Hoppers, Talleys, Perrys, Legacy Five, Signature Sound and others. I don't always like every song or style by these groups, but they have things I like. I also like some songs by the Crabbs (Please Forgive Me, Through The Fire, The Cross etc.) which may or may not fit the definition above for Southern Gospel. My problem isn't with a lot of groups he calls Southern Gospel and I tend to prefer many of them. I just disagree with a lot of the article.
Commented by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) On 06/07/2009
hey quartet man,
You disagree with most of Nick's article. That's ok. I don't believe he is saying that everyone should eat ONLY vanilla ice cream. I think he is saying "Don't call frozen yogurt ice cream. Don't call sherbert ice cream. Just because they're all cold doesn't mean they're the same thing". And once again, I think his point is ONLY ONE THING.."If SGM isn't careful, it will lose the kind of music that got it started" To Nick, this seems to be a major point. If you interpret what he is saying as "No one should ever sing one song that is not exactly like the Cathedrals sang in 1964" then I believe you are missing his point. He sees that style of music being REPLACED by the other forms. He doesn't want that music REPLACED by what others are "calling" SGM. That's his opinion. Everyone is talking about INCLUDING other music, but his main point seems to be that he sees a trend that willcause that original type of music to be REPLACED. And concerning Matt Felts article, I don't think it gets Nick's point at all...even though it was posted days after Nick's article appeared and Matt could have possibly (?) read Nick's article before writing his own.
Commented by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) On 06/07/2009
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