Those of you who don?t take advantage of the Message Boards are missing out on some very interesting discussion. One of the discussions has revolved around the statement that some people have made that the quality of Southern Gospel has been going down hill for several years. This really strikes a nerve with me. There seems to be some confusion as to the difference between style and quality.
Let me talk about the style issue for a little if I may. Back in the 70s and 80s there was great discussion about the ?country? influence that was coming into Southern Gospel Music. It seems that the ?purists? of Southern Gospel Music didn?t want the ?country? sound that was clearly making an impact on the genre. Such groups as The Rambos, The Happy Goodmans, and The Hinsons were definitely having an influence. Whether it was a good influence or a bad influence is still being debated today. The fact was, there was no other place for groups like these to go. In reality both styles of music were sharing the stage every night, and the fans were loving it.
Let me just say that since this discussion has been going on for 30 years, and the country influence is still here, I think that it is pretty safe to say that it truly is a part of Southern Gospel Music, and we need to live with that fact. The inertia of the country influence is too strong to stop it. It really isn?t bad for the genre. The fact is that many of these country sounding groups will fill a building, when the traditional quartet sounds, as much as I love them, do not always draw.
Now there are some traditional quartet fans that think the Gold City is the cats meow and the more progressive sounds of the Gaither Vocal Band are just terrible. Then there are those who love the progressive sounds of GVB and The Lesters and think that all quartets sound alike. Add to that the bluegrass fans that think that the Issacs can outsing all of the above and you have to come to one brilliant deduction. Quality is in the ear of the listener. (Not to say that any of these groups mentioned are not "quality groups")
Now back to the quality issue. If I prefer the stylings of the more progressive groups, does that make the quality of the quartets inferior? If I love the bluegrass singing, does that make the progressive sounds inferior in quality?
No, not at all. Now there are some part time groups out there who are singing flat or sharp or off key or off timing, and that is bad. Those groups however are not at the top of any of the genres. I can remember singing in some pretty ?bad? groups when I was a teenager. When I finally formed my own group, the Sunday Edition, we strove for excellence, but we shared the stage with some pretty bad part time groups. We have the same thing today.
However, there were top notch groups back then that everyone went to see, and today we have the same thing. There is no lack of quality in the top notch groups of today.
Well this should give you a little idea of the types of things that we discuss on the message boards, so why don?t you come and join us.
Author: .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
Written: 06/30/2003
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Category: Monthly ArticlesEditorials
Comments: 50
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Thank you so much for the broad common sense article you wrote in reference to quality of present day Gospel Singing. As a former member of the Klaudt Indian Family, I for one, prefer the shape note 4 part harmony of the past. However, my wife and I will drive 200-300 miles on a weekend to hear family groups, trios, soloists, bluegrass, country gospel. I believe many fans get so tied up in style that they miss a tremendous blessing for closing their minds. I heard one fan say they couldn't enjoy one certain female singer because she had a pointed nose. That may be an extreme, but your point is well taken.
YES I LIKE ALL OF GOSPEL MUSIC. LONG AS IT HAS THE GOSPEL MESSAGE THATS WHAT MAKES SOUTHERN GOSPEL SO GREAT. OH BE LOOKING FOR PSALM 101 NEW RELEASE PERFECT LOVE GREAT LEAD SINGER AND SONG WRITING. ITS GOING TO BE ON RICKS #20 7-5-2003
Nice article Deon, I agree completely. May I suggest portions of your article be sent as a letter to the editor of the Singing News in response to Mr. Pauley's common editorials against today's singers. "Bad" part-time groups aside the market has never had as much to offer the southern gosple lover as it does today.
That should be "gospel" and "they can". Sorry for the spelling errors.
I agree that quality is often defined by the preferences of the listener. However, there is more to quality than just being able to sing on key. In formal music study, they say that the most important things a piece of music needs are unity and variety. Unity for giving the music identity and variety to keep it from being boring. You can imagine how important this can be in a 45-minute symphony. Yet listening to a SG radio station for 45 minutes or listening to a SG CD for 45 minutes isn't really any different. Unfortunately, there is very little variety in SG music (at least on the radio). I try to listen to SG radio, but after two or three songs, you realize that you've heard all the variety you are going to hear.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit
- Galatians 5:25.
HELLO KEITH YES THAT IS SOME WHAT TURE BUDGET HAS A LOT TO DO WITH IT. TIME IS MONEY IN THE STUDIO. AND IF YOU GET TO BOLD WHITH YOUR MUSIC YOU GOT FOLKS IN THE INDUSTRY WILL SAY THATS NOT SG MUSIC OR A BIT EDG'Y. BUT WE DO HAVE SOME WONDERFUL TALENT IN SG AND IT IS ABOUT THE MESSAGE NOT SO MUCH THE TALENT. BUT LIKE I SAID, WE HAVE GREAT TALENT. ALSO, WE HAVE A BUDGET THING TO. WE DO NOT SELL 500,000 CD'S IN A YEAR LIKE OTHER MARKETS .THATS WHY I AM FOR ALL OF GOSPEL MUSIC TO COME TOGETHER AND HAVE ALL STYLES. I THINK IT WILL HELP THE INDUSTRY.GROUPS LIKE BILL GAITHER ,THE MARTINS,THE CRABBS, PSALM 101, LORDSONG, & THE HOSKINS ARE A FEW WHO ADD A LITTLE FLAVOR TO THE TRADITIONAL SOUND.
I looked in http://www.dictionary.com and this definition of "quality" most closely matches the one we use in the industry in which I work (manufacturing of electrical distribution equipment.
HELLO LARRY YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT THE GROUPS OF THE 50,60,70,WERE NOT ENTERTAINERS, OH! THAY PROFORMED WELL DRUNK OR HIGH.IF ROY CAN BE BOLD SO CAN I.SORRY BUT WHATS WRONG WITH A LITTE ENTERTAINMENT IF IT WILL GET THE GOSPEL MESSAGE OUT. (AND NEW FANS)
Larry, I couldn't disagree with you more. I cannot see where th equality of Southern Gospel Music has gone downhill at anytime, yet alone in the last several years. There is still an ample supply of quality quartets, some great trios, some famiily groups as well as some soloists, which have no hint of country or bluegrass to them.
I just do not hear this downhill trend that some people are talking about today. I do hear a lot of great music coming out.
Dale, I don't think that Larry was addressing the entertainment verses ministry comparison.
Deon Unthank
SoGospelNews.com
My Blog
Some people are like Slinkys… Not really good for anything, but they
still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs - Author Unknown
THOSE WHO PERFORM THAT STYLE,MAY BE'' TOP NOTCH ENTERTAINERS,BUT I REMAIN UNIMPRESSED! THAT IS TELLING ME HE THINKS THAT QUARTETS ARE NOT ENTERTAINERS! OK. I AGREE WITH DEON AND MORE TO COME.
After reading this article and the comments, I was wondering, when did entertainment become a part of the gospel music field? What happened to being ministered to and being blessed. I for one can appreciate anyones talent, and love to hear the traditional as well as the groups mentioned as todays groups. but to me if there is not a spirit in their singing that can connect with mine, then however good it is, it is nothing but a noise. What some peole identify with is not always what others like. that is why God made apples and peaches, fo those with different tastes. I say as long as it is seasoned with the spirit, and has the right message let's not criticize.
Music has value on its' own apart from whatever words are placed with it. It is capable of carrying the Spirit of God even when no words are present (just ask King David). Often, what is heard as a lack of quality (because we come away from a concert empty), is nothing more than music that does not carry the Spirit of God. When we begin seeing music as entertainment, its' value is greatly reduced.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit
- Galatians 5:25.
TRUE, GOOD POINT KEITH
HARVEY, ENTERTAINMENT IN SG HAS BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME.WITH THE DO-WOP, 50 ROCK, AND COUNTRY, BUT I CAN STILL BE BLESSED WITH THE WORDS OF THE SONG EVEN THOUGH THOSE SOUNDS ARE THERE.SO YOU CAN BE ENTERTAINED AND BLESSED TO.
Keith,I have read the two comments that you have made in the past few weeks using J.S.Bach as an example of composers whose impetus was their Christian belief.I agree... for his motto was "ad majorem Dei gloriam" -to the greater glory of God and of the church. BUT...your disertations on his place in the history of western music are not true.He was NOT it's inventor.He did not invent polyphony,as you stated.The historical chronology did NOT jump from The Edict of Milan(plainsong) to the works of Bach.Jumping over the Gothic,Middle Ages,Renaissance,low and mid Baroque.You cannot deny the influence on Bach of French composers such as Rameau,Italian composers such as Vivaldi,but most importantly German composers such as Buxtehude,Pachelbel.He did not have just chant.He did not work in a vacuum.He was not appreciated in his time,and the years following his death.Even his sons dismissed his music as old fashioned.He was a great comp[oser.He music is still great but do not think that all SGM fans are classical music neophytes.
Quality - excellence, superiority, class, eminence, value, worth … whatever synonym you use any style of music you may talk about you must look at it roots. Then there IS the ministry side; after all we are talking about southern GOSPEL.
Bill, "inventor" may not be the correct term for what Bach did. (I do not remembers saying that Bach invented polyphony, although when they teach counterpoint in college they use his works as teaching material.) But he was the first to develop a system of tuning that allows for the use of all 24 major and minor keys without having to retune, thus providing the impetus for the development of the system of keys, harmonies and modulation (key changes) we use today.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit
- Galatians 5:25.
Must totally disagree with this statement: "Unfortunately, there is very little variety in SG music (at least on the radio). I try to listen to SG radio, but after two or three songs, you realize that you've heard all the variety you are going to hear."
Keith,I agree that inventor is not the term to use in reference to J.S. Bach's place in thre history of western music.He took what he had and ran with it.Hence my remarks about the influences on his music.(Italian,French,and mostly his German predessessors and contempararies.My statement about polyphony goes back to your statement in a comment a few weeks ago to the effect that all he had to work with was chant.(plainsong-monody)In all his music and especially in that for the church,he was less influenced by the music of The Marian Cult than he was by the Lutheran Chorale tradition.
Living up here in New York I can not relate to what is being played on SGM radio.The Gospel Greats on Sat. morning!!...That's it....(and a little on the web.)
Bill, are you saying that there is a glut of quartets with Basses in the baritone range?
Deon Unthank
SoGospelNews.com
My Blog
Some people are like Slinkys… Not really good for anything, but they
still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs - Author Unknown
No,no Deon,there are some but that was not what I was saying.I did not puncuate that very good.I put a period after male trios.I don't feel that there are a glut of quartets with basses singing that high but for whatever reasons there are some.And I feel that by doing that the blend and sound is a much more contemparary one.But there is a glut of trios of all types.By choice or necessity.That probably cleared up nothing!!
HELLO EVERY BODY LETS JUST LOAD UP AND GO TO ''CRABB FEST' IT IS THE BIGGEST THING IN GOSPEL MUSIC NOW DONT YOU THINK.SO LETS LOVE EACH ONE AND ENJOY ALL THAT GOSPEL MUSIC HAS TO OFFER.
OH, AND WHAT I HEAR THAY ARE HAVING LIVE MUSIC. YES I SAID LIVE MUSIC HEMMMMMMM I WONDER IF THAY ARE GOING TO HAVE DRUMMMMS HEMMMMMMMM OH KNOW GUITARS TOO! WE BETTER RUN WE MIGHT NOT GET A SEAT AT CRABB FEST OH IS THAT SG HEMMMMMMMM.
There may be more variation in style in today's SG music, but everything you hear, on the radio at least, is the same old vocal cliches, the same old instrumental cliches and the same old lyrics. It's like a dog chasing its' tail, the music just keeps going around in circles.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit
- Galatians 5:25.
Keith,
I guess I'm just having a hard time relating to what you are saying. I hear all kinds of diversity on SGM radio. I hear quartets, trios, mixed groups, soloists, I hear song in 4/4 time, 2/4 time 3/4 time 6/8 time. I hear fun songs, novelty songs, ballads, songs where everyone goes a different direction. I'm not understanding your thoughts of no variation. Maybe I should ask, "what are you wanting to hear?" I think that I am hearing as much variety now as I did in the 70s and 80s.
Deon Unthank
SoGospelNews.com
My Blog
Some people are like Slinkys… Not really good for anything, but they
still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs - Author Unknown
Deon,
YES YES GO FOR IT GUNSINGER!
Sorry, I have been away from my computer for a while and didn't realize that I did not make my point in a way that you could understand.
This my first ever response to the Message Board. In reference to the "quality if SG music. I've been reading a lot of opinions about this "quality" idea. I agree with someone else who said "quality" is in the ear of the listener. SG has developed a vocabulary of varying terminology. What really worries me is the fact that some of our "artists" are becoming more intent on the marketing of their product than the message of the Cross. Some have lost their "first love" after having reached the "celebrity status". SG is becoming a big business, but let us NOT forget that we need to foremostly be about the Father's business as we deliver His message via southern gospel music!
I love sgm. no matter the style, whether old or new. i recently recorded in "BIG NASHVILLE" with a well known producer and his words were quality, while important, is not the most important part, style is not the most important part, your look, your entertaining value,even your ministry(WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO BEING PLAYED ON THE RADIO) is not the most important part, but what the D.J. thinks of the project.
Deon, you asked me what I wanted to hear, well here it is.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit
- Galatians 5:25.
Anyone who says that country influence has only affected or been a part of gospel music, SGM or otherwise, is grossly naive or completely ignorant of the facts of the matter. The truth is, since at least the 1950s, country, Bluegrass , and what some term as "Old Time Country" music have all influenced and have been integral parts of the gospel music equation. All one had to do to realize that fact was to visit various churches throughout the South, from Valdosta, Georgia, to the northern reaches of Kentucky; from the shores of North Carolina's coast to the Texas-New Mexico state line.
Al,
IN RESPONSE TO THE QUALITY OF SOUTHERN GOSPEL MUSIC OF TODAY ISSUE...IN MY OVER 38 YEARS OF BEING IN SOUTHERN GOSPEL MUSIC, I FIND SEVERAL GROUPS IN SOUTHERN GOSPEL THAT SING VARIOUS STYLES (bluegrass, country, etc. etc.) THAT I ENJOY BECAUSE THEY HAVE WORKED HARD TO PERFECT THEIR PARTICULAR STYLE. AS FAR AS THE QUARTETS OF TODAY, I FIND WITH A COUPLE OF EXCEPTIONS(Dove Brothers, Southern Sound and maybe a couple more) HAVE TWO BARITONES...A HIGH & LOW....NOT A TRUE FOUR PART HARMONY QUARTET!. HOWEVER, I WILL ALSO SAY IN REGARDS TO THE SEMI-PRO GROUPS, YOU WILL FIND QUITE A BIGGER NUMBER OF TRUE FOUR PART HARMONY...IS IT BECAUSE THEY PRACTICE MORE...IS IT THEIR DESIRE TO PERFECT THEIR CALLING....I THINK THIS IS A BIG PART OF IT. IT SADDENS ME, THAT IF YOU ARE NOT A WELL KNOWN GROUP....QUARTET, TRIO, MIXED GROUP ETC. ETC. QUITE A NUMBER OF DIE HARD SOUTHERN GOSPEL MUSIC FANS WILL NOT GO HEAR THEM. I CHALLENGE SOUTHERN GOSPEL MUSIC FANS TO START GOING TO THESE (UNKNOWN GROUPS) CONCERTS...IN MOST INSTANCES, THEY WILL BE GLAD THEY DID!. YES, WE STILL NEED THE QUALITY, WE NEED THE ENTERTAINMENT AND WE DEFINITELY NEED TO REMEMBER THAT OUR PURPOSE IN SOUTHERN GOSPEL MUSIC IS TO GLORIFY GOD AND TO CARRY THE MESSAGE OF JESUS CHRIST TO THE WORLD AND NOT TO ''MAN''.....TOMMY D. MAYO OF THE SOUTHERN GOSPEL OUTREACH, CLARKSVILLE, TEXAS
Tommy,
It looks like your web site is still under construction.
What is The Southern Gospel Outreach?
Deon Unthank
SoGospelNews.com
My Blog
Some people are like Slinkys… Not really good for anything, but they
still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs - Author Unknown
God bless Al !! He is absolutely right! The earliest influences of gospel music came from what is now called mountain / bluegrass styles of singing. yet ,we gospel bluegrass folks are largely ignored and put down as unworthy of consideration, and not taken seriously. We write many of our songs and God"s grace, mercy, goodness, and the Lord"s eminent return are and is the focus! Glenn General Delivery bluegrass gospel band
That's because that, except for a few exceptions, Bluegrass gospel is filled with bad musicianship, poor sounding vocals and useless lyrics.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit
- Galatians 5:25.
Keith,
Have you been living on a different planet or what?
Bluegrass musicians are some of the most talented artists around.
Poor sounding vocals, maybe in your opinion, but bluegrass concerts continually pack out the places where they are booked.
As to the useless lyrics, since most bluegrass groups sing a lot of the old hymns and Gospel songs that SG groups have been singing, I guess you are saying that SG lyrics are useless too.
I do not know where you get your authority to make such outlandish statements, but I find your comments offensive. I am not a bluegrass fan, but what you said is ridiculous.
Deon Unthank
SoGospelNews.com
My Blog
Some people are like Slinkys… Not really good for anything, but they
still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs - Author Unknown
I've listened to a lot of bluegrass gospel in my life and I stand behind my comments. It's time that SG and bluegrass artists stop looking at what they do with rose-colored glasses and acquire some skill. As for the lyrics, a large portion of both SG and bluegrass songs have the message that this life is horrible and let's just escape it and go to heaven. This message is contrary to scripture and is useless.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit
- Galatians 5:25.
Mr Prater,
And I will stand behind my statement thayou yours was outlandish and offensive. There aresome greatly skilled artists in SG and we are not looking through rose-colored glasses. I do not know what you are listening to, but it sure isn't the same SG that I am listening to. The greater portion of todays SG music has a very strong Gospel message that is NOT contrary to scripture.
If you have listened to alot of bluegrass in your time, then you should have some appreciation for the instrumental abilities that it takes to play those many stringed instruments that they play.
Deon Unthank
SoGospelNews.com
My Blog
Some people are like Slinkys… Not really good for anything, but they
still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs - Author Unknown
Well this is my first time to write in to this board, but I had to comment on the subject. I have been listening to and singing SG music all my life. My father raised me on the Statesmen Quartet of the 50's and 60's and it is still my favorite style of SG. But I believe there are great groups today with great quality. NOT ALL OF THEM ARE FULL-TIME GROUPS THAT WIN ALL THE FAN AWARDS. Many ARE though, Gold City, Greater Vision are as good vocally as anyone who ever sung. Also some, just a few, of the full time groups are not nearlly as musically refined as these I have mentioned. But this has always been true, not just in this decade. My father has an album recorded from NQC in the early 60's. The Statesmen, Oak Ridge Quartet and the Blackwoods were awsome. Some of the others left a lot to be desired. The difference in quality within the industry has always been there. One last thing. I am not basing my opinion on the style I like but on how well the group displays the basic fundalmentals of music: harmony, rhythm/timing, dynamics, and voice quality.
I'm going blind trying to read all these comments. Personally, I love it all and don't know of a single 'professional' group that sounds bad. All the groups have something wonderful to contribute to SGM. Everyone just take what you like best and that way all can be satisfied.
Judy,
Thanks, Melvin. I just says 'em as I think 'em. No other music can move me as much or can uplift me as much or can show me the error of my ways as much. I feel this music is God's own special way to chastise me when needed and to take me to the mountaintop when it's needed. Thanks to all on this chatboard(?) for giving all of us a chance to give our opinion...good, bad. or somewhere in between.
I have loved Southern Gospel Music for over 60 years and attended hundreds of concerts.
:hehe:
all,
I started to drop some incendiary comments of my own like I have done on the boards but after reading all of these comments I think I'll take a different approach.
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