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Deon Unthank

Sowing and Reaping

imageI was sitting in church the other Sunday listening to a guest speaker, and as I was listening, it seemed that everything he was saying was hitting me, as a Southern Gospel artist, right between the eyes. So, before anyone gets too defensive, this article is speaking as much to me as it is anyone else. Our guest speaker said that we pitifully try to harvest, when we haven?t done much planting. We just had a big discussion on this web site last month about sinners in the church. The fact is that one of the main places sinners should be getting saved is in the church, but we don?t seem to be doing a very good job of getting sinners to the church. This same principle applies to us as artists as well. We tend to get a booking and just expect that when we do our part of ?showing up,? then the rest of the world will do their part and ?just show up? too. One look at just about any Southern Gospel concert will tell you that this just is not happening. Very few groups can be counted on to draw enough people to pay their flats, let alone pay for any of the other expenses involved in promoting a concert. I have said before, when I put on my ?promoter hat,? that it isn?t fair for the promoter to be struck as the only one responsible for the success of a concert. If Southern Gospel artists want to benefit from the rewards of the concert, then they should do their fair share of making that concert a success. Crowds do not happen on accident. People don?t just show up at concerts. I do believe that promoters have the responsibility to do everything they can to bring a crowd in. Advertising in newspapers and radio are always effective. However, I have seen promoters do everything they can to get a crowd, doing all the right things, and still not have enough people show up to pay the group. Because of that, I want to look at what the groups and artists can do, and should do, to help carry their portion of the concert. Just about every concert I go to, I put my name on some group or artist?s mailing list. I have often wondered what they do with these lists when they get them home. Do they make good kindling for the fireplace? Do they make good wallpaper in their living rooms? They must be doing something with these lists, bcause I very, very seldom receive any communication from these groups when they are about to be in my town. In fact, I can?t count the number of times that an artist or group has been in my town and I didn?t knows about it until after they had already been here and gone. I know, it costs 22 cents to mail a post card. I cannot help but think that it would be a very wise investment for groups or artists to send post cards to people on their mailing lists, informing them that they are coming to perform in a concert near them. Surely the people liked them and would come to see them again, if they went to the trouble of putting their name on that groups mailing list. Most promoters use a mailing list, but how much more personal it would be to receive an invitation to the concert from one of the groups going to be there. One more thought about what groups and artists can do to help promote any concert that they are about to perform on, is to call the radio station in or around the city where they are about to perform. When I was on the radio, my listeners loved to hear interviews with the artists. They especially loved the spontaneous interviews, when an artist was in town that night, and took the time to spend just a few minutes with the audience. What was even more impressive was when an artist would drop in at the radio station. I would get calls for an hour after the artist had left, with people still wanting to talk with them. You know, a phone call, and ten minutes out of your time could reap you a much larger attendance at your concerts. We have been expecting a harvest, when we haven?t planted any seeds. We have expected to just show up and have a harvest. Talk to any farmer and you will find out that getting to the harvest is a lot of work. Psalm 126:6 says ?He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him?. If we want the harvest, we have to do the planting. We can?t just continue to go to the field and expect to see a harvest, when we haven?t planted any seed. Remember, the more you plant, the more you will harvest. I recently heard a very wise man in the Southern Gospel industry say that when he quit depending on other people to promote him and started doing all he could to promote his group, the concert attendance grew rapidly. I am throwing this challenge out to every artist and group that is traveling. Start doing all you can to promote yourself and see if your concert attendances don?t start increasing.

About This Article - Sowing and Reaping

Deon Unthank's avatar Author: .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
Written: 05/31/2003 | Category: Monthly ArticlesEditorials Comments: 58
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Reader Comments

  1.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/02/2003

    I agree with Deon. It is very hard and expensive work to promote a concert. I am not complaining, however over the last 19 years of promoting, it has cost me a lot of money out of my pocketbook. This means many are going to churches and putting in a dollar or five thinking they have helped. If they knew what it cost to have a top notch concert, they would probably try harder. One person comes to mind. He said he was one of the biggest supporters of Gospel Music at concerts. He handed me his offering of 3 dollars. That bought 2 gallons of fuel. Thanks

  2.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/02/2003

    Excellent article Deon!

  3.    Keith Prater ~ 06/03/2003

    Putting on a Gospel music concert at a church kind of reveals one of the ugly sides of Christianity. That is that Christians are among the cheapest people on earth -- especially when it comes to appreciating those who provide them value services in a ministry setting.

    Many Christians will pay $40 to attend a concert of their favorite secular artist, but they feel like they've sacrificed the world if they put in five dollars for their whole family to attend a Southern Gospel concert. But an even worse tragedy is perpetrated by the artists themselves. They will spend thousands of dollars on sound equipment and busses, but will not pay a penny for their singers and musicians. This is the real seed they must sow if they expect to reap financial benefits from their travels. How can the groups expect people to pay anything for their concerts if the groups are not willing to pay the money to have quality musicians. No doubt, this is what makes it worth $40 to see Garth Brooks, because he is willing to pay those who help him a decent amount of money.

    The groups will say they don't have enough money to pay their musicians. Maybe they should give up that bus and get a van. Maybe they can use a less expensive sound system. But, they will have to invest money in their musicians if they ever expect to receive a significant fan base or financial reward. If they will do this, everyone will benefit, including the promoter. If not, it will not matter how hard the promoters and artists try to get people to come to the concert, they will not come because the groups have not invested in their musicians.

  4.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/03/2003

    Deon,

    I agree with your article to an extent. A promoters job is to promote and an artist job is to sing. Promoters tell people what is happening or who is comeing. The artist's job is to be as visible to the fans or concert goers as possible. Now if artist's do the promoting what is the promoters job and where does he or she fit in. What I'm saying is as artists we record, travel, set up photo shoots, take time with fans, keep sound systems up, work out transportation, release songs to radio, find a place to eat,spend as much time with or familys as possible not to mention the promotional things we do for record co. special events for the SGMA and booking agencys. I am not complaining at all cause I love it but if we start promoting events we might as well leave out the promoters and keep all the proceeds to cover all expencess. I lay all responsibility on the promotion on the promoter.

  5.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/03/2003

    Gunsinger, I wrote this article from the exoerience of wearing both hats, that of artist and promoter. If you ever try it from the promoters end and find yourself paying out of your pocket a few too many times, you will understand that the artist has more responsibility than just showing up and singing. My point is that the really successful groups out there are doing their share to promote themselves.

    Keith,
    There is no difference between a group having musicians or not when it comes to drawing power. People do not come to hear the bands in SGM. In country music they do, but not in Southern Gospel.

  6.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/04/2003

    Deon,
    I agree 100%. We just had the Hoppers with us at our homecoming and they did thier share of trying to make it a success. They sent out postcards to the people in my area and even made a few phone calls to pastors and music leadersin the local churches. We get to thinking "hey look at us" when we need to be saying "hey look at him". The more people we get to a concert the greater the chance of seeing someoneget saved. I'm not being ugly, but if you are waiting on someone to promote you and you not have to do anything, than you must be better than the Hoppers or Bill Gaither and you just don't need anyone!!
    Great article Deon!! God Bless!!

  7.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/04/2003

    Deon,
    In my letter I listed the things artist do to promote their group. Bottom line artist are not concert promoters! Bill Gaither is a concert promoter/artist and you see what is happening to your smaller events due to the artist takeing over promotion of concert in His areas. No I believe your true Good promoters had rather just do the research, see who draws in their area,plan their promotion as if it were a buisness with the possibility of that event failing, and let the artist handle their job. Which is many that I listed in a previous statement. A lot of your promoters think just because you have a certain group you can put promotion on auto pilot. Put a few spots on your local radio station, buy an add in the local news paper, throw up a few flyers and presto we have a crowd!! Well I'm sorry but if it was that easy everybody would do it! You have to have a plan and work every angle possible to bring in ticket sales. Yes I said ticket sales! Now if your looking at the ministry side of it then where 2 or 3 are gathered He will be in the midst. I am not bitter or mad just looking at this from a real view! Please if you are going to promote do your homework and plan for the worst! That is just good buisness! One more thing please list the things that you think are the responsibility of the promoter. Great article that needs to be addressed and talked about for the good of artist and promoter. I think it is healthy to go in to any concert knowing what is expected from each side.

    ***eidted by moderator***

  8.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/04/2003

    Gunsinger, I have to ask, have you ever promoted a concert? If you have then you should know that after a promoter works his hands to the bone, if that artist doesn't draw, then it's not the artist who loses his shirt, it's the promoter. Bill Gaither is a great example of someone who has promoted himself.

    You have missed the whole point of the article. I am not suggesting that artists promote the concert for the promoter, but promote themselves, so that they draw. It's not the promoters job to make the people to come to hear an artist. That's the artist's job. The promoters job is to inform the people that an artist is coming, get the venue, and make the artist available to the public for performance. It is the artist job to make the public want to come out and see them. By keeping in contact with the public, and making their fans aware of when they will be in an area, they produce an artist personality that makes the public want to come out and see them.
    Once again, The GVB and the Crabb Family are both very good at promoting themselves, and both are amongst the best drawing groups in the genre. We can keep this attitude of all the artist has to do is "show up" and perform, and we can keep having promtoers lose their shirts and artists not get much renumeration, or we can do our part as artists and see bigger crowds gather.

    There may be an ever so small percentage of promoters who have an "auto-pilot" mode, but most of the promoters that I have come in contact with, know that they have to work very hard to get a crowd there, or they end up paying the artist out of their pocket. That is pretty good incentive to work a concert hard.

    Exactly what do you think that a promoter is supposed to do to get a crowd there besides advertise with radio, newpaper, flyers and mailing list?

    Have you ever stuck your neck out for the responsibility of a several thousand dollar flat that has to be paid whether a crowd shows up or not?

    It would be interesting to see groups work on a percentage basis. That would give them the incentive to help make the concert a success.

  9.    Keith Prater ~ 06/04/2003

    I have no way of knowing if having a band or not affects drawing power. I do know that I will not go to a concert if I know the artist will be singing to tracks. If I wanted to hear that I would just buy the CD. I would prefer hearing a single pianist live than a huge orchestra on tracks. Even then, I hope the pianist is skilled and practiced.

    But this is about investing in your product. Taking the time to vocalize to keep your voice in shape. Taking the time to practice your instrument everyday. Practicing together as a group an hour or two a day. Being willing to invest in quality musicians behind you if you are not a good instrumentalist yourself. In order to reap a reward you have to bring as much to the audience as you possibly can. Shortcuts and inattention only diminishes what you do and reduces the reward.

    I am sure that most of the top groups know this. But if SGM is going to be a respected music genre, everyone involved needs to be diligent to plant these seeds. If we can do this, then this little spat over who does the promoting will not be such a big deal.

  10.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/04/2003

    I don't understand some of these comments. Obviously some of you have never done anything but show up to a concert and find a seat. Deon is just trying to make you realize it takes a little hands on on the groups side to make it happen. I've done both and the more you do the more you learn what to do and not to do. I know everyones got their opinion and thats fine, but if you don't have commonsense than it tends to get a little hard to voice an opinion. I'm not trying to be rude, but if some of you could hear yourselfs you might realize how weird you sound. I just think its alot of work for a group to get a following. It takes more than just showing up. If you get on a personal level with these fans than you will see a difference. Some of you act like the fans and promoters owe you something when in fact you owe it to the fans and promoters to be the very best you can be in all areas. If you stay on good terms with the promoters, guess who might just call you back for another booking. Think about it!!!

    Keith,
    You are missing out on alot of great talent by building a wall because they don't bands. I would love to have a band, but the finances are not always available. I do pay my singers, but to have a topnotch band you have to have the finances to do so. Now maybe you have alot more money than some and thats great may God bless you, But you can't just put Joe & Sam up there just to have a band. Just because a groups uses trax doesnot mean that they sound exactly like whats on the cd nor do they just do whats on the cd. I think I would pray about it before I made a statement like like that. I don't think the Lord would find that to flattering!

  11.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/04/2003

    Deon,

    I have listed the things most groups do 200+ days a year. Now I will attempt to give you some advice for promoters. Here is an idea get your churches involved. Contact pastors. Hand out flyers at other gospel events. Do not get someone to do it for you. The people want to know who is putting on the concerts. They will build trust in that promoter to have quality programs. Use more than one radio station as so to cover at least a 100 mile radius. Word of mouth. Go everywhere possible and tell people about your event. Talk to youth pastors, music directors about discounts on group rates. There are all kinds of little things that can be done. The Crabb Family does a great job as does Bill Gaither but our industry would be hurting if they were the only ones spending money on promotion. I have not came across a group in 15 years that thinks all they have to do is show up. That has not even been said except by you. Here is an idea, call the group scheduled to be on your date and ask them for help. I believe you will find some great folks willing to help any way they can. Remember this one thing. Never put more money into an event than you can afford to loose! One more thing. Promoters who cut or their checks bounce don't have to worry about that group needing them or wanting them to book their group again.

  12.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/04/2003

    Deon,

    I have promoted. Sometimes you loose sometimes you win. It is a roll of the dice. You have to accept the responsibiliy and be willing to go with it good or bad. Remember the groups want a good crowd there.

  13.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/04/2003

    To the unknown writer,

    Please if you can not speak without slaming or questioning someones intelligence do not speak. This is a good topic that needs to be discussed not argued! Lets not argue who is right or wronge but what we can do to make it better!

  14.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/04/2003

    Gunsinger,

    You have entirely missed the point of this article. Deon never said anything about not promoting as a promoter or leaving it all in the hands of the artists. He is talking about a group expecting a harvest somewhere they have never planted seeds.

    If an artist is unheard of in an area, no amount of promotion on the promoters part will get a crowd. The artist has to expect to put some investment into promoting that area as well. This is a two way street. This article was very clear on the need for the promoter and the artist to be working together.

    I don't think there was any mention of a promoter not paying or bouncing a check, that is totally off-topic and has no bearing on the article at all.

    And I sure don't see anyone arguing. I see some disagreeing with your statements, but that sure isn't arguing.

  15.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/05/2003

    WhereHeLeads,

    Please read his article again. No mention of what the promoter sowed or did not sow to reap the Harvest. Just mention of how the artist failed there job in some areas in his opinion. Most all groups are willing to do radio calls to help promote a concert, if they know the phone #. Maybe if the promoter would pick up the phone and call these artist he or she would be so surprised at the response they would get from willing hearts wanting to help plant seed. As far as being off topic , Deon mentioned promoters not haveing enough money to pay the groups. Well, when you sign a contract bad checks are not an option of payment. Bad checks only help you skate by long enough for the group to get out of town. Promoters a lot of the time find it easy to work out this problem on the phone instead of face to face the night or day of the concert.

  16.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/05/2003

    Gunsinger,

    I am thinking that you missed my message all together. What promoters are doing or not doing right is another article. I was focusing on the artists. You seem to have gone to a defensive mode in connection to this article. Promoters and bad checks have nothing to do with the thought of this article. My point is that the promoter shouldn't have to call the artists to get them to make calls to the radio stations. Most groups already have a copy of the Southern Gospel Source Book, which lists just about all the stations playing SGM.

  17.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/05/2003

    Deon,

    I am not being defensive. Just saying most groups are doing there jobs very well. I'm sure Guy, David, Russ and Bill are home right now stuying their source book. I believe they have a few more things to do. Artist do make calls to radio but it is not their respnonsibility to do the research. What if an artist happen to just pick up his or her source book and found the stations in that area and only one or two were being paid to promote the concert. Don't tell me the station manager is just going to hope on board because a thoughtful artist called. I dare say not! The artist will probably be embarassed. The promoter should know what stations are in his or her support and let the artist know where and when to call. Come on man this is simple. Artist are willing to work at makeing concerts go. Promoters need to know that and make them aware of stations and other avenues of promotion that will be of help. That is just good buisness! One other thing, a promoter should know who draws in his or her area if he has any doubts about a groups drawing power don't book that artist! I have made my point very clear and you seem to keep trying to make this a personal issue. All I have done is take promoting a concert from each side and give my opinions on what you had to say. You have had many more points than just the artist calling stations. You mentioned promoters not haveing enough money to pay groups. That is a very big issue when you have an organization depending on that money. Bus payments, insurance, promotion bills, salarys, product bills, and many other expenses that the general public has no idea that artist have to deal with. Take it from me artist are sowing in faith every week. Right now I can take you to several artist who would be ready at a momments notice to help there promoter sow seed. I have farmed in my life and worked for different farmers who invested in seed to plant. They invested in equipment to help plant the seed. They paid us a good wage to help plant. We did our best for that farmer. He would tell us where to plant and how deep the seed should be. He did everything for a possible good harvest. Sometime his crop would florish and sometime it would die and rot in the field but you know he never called the workers in and asked for his money back or even never mentioned not haveing enough to pay us.

  18.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/05/2003

    Gunsinger said:
    "a promoter should know who draws in his or her area if he has any doubts about a groups drawing power don't book that artist!"

    Well, that being said, the next time you call an area for a booking and the person you are speaking to says, "Sorry, we have never heard of you, you are not known in this area," don't be offended that they won't book you because you have not --planted any seeds-- there. Obviously, it is not a promoters job to plant seeds for an artist who is not known.

    I still don't think Deon said anything about promoters --not-- paying groups. He said, and I quote, "it isn?t fair for the promoter to be struck as the only one responsible for the success of a concert. If Southern Gospel artists want to benefit from the rewards of the concert, then they should do their fair share of making that concert a success." He also stated, and again I quote, " I have seen promoters do everything they can to get a crowd, doing all the right things, and still not have enough people show up to pay the group." No where did he mention promoters who do not pay the artist. He was talking about concerts that don't bring in enough money to support the bills of the concert.

    As to taking it personally, you seem to be the only one taking it personally by continuing to state, "Just saying most groups are doing there jobs very well." I think you may be speaking for yourself, but I don't think you should presume to speak for all groups. And apparently as a group you aren't receptive to ideas of how groups and promoters should and could be working together to make a concert a bigger success for all concerned.

  19.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/05/2003

    This is a great article. There are alot of things in this industry that proves people always leave their success to someone else. The artist leaves it to the promoter, the promoter leaves it to the artist. The artist blames it on radio, radio blames it on the artist. The artist blames the record company, the record company blames radio. And the list goes on. Instead we need to be looking how we can work together to plant seeds. Artists need to realize that just booking a date won't secure a crowd and a promoter needs to realize that just booking an artist won't secure a crowd, but by working together both benefits.

    Let's all start planting some seeds, instead of arguing about who should be planting them.

  20.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/05/2003

    WhereHeLeads,

    Deon's quote, "I have seen promoters do everything they can to get a crowd, doing all the right things, and still not have enough people show up to pay the group." This quote bothers me because if a promoter has signed a legal contract he is obligated to pay the group no matter what the crowd. I am not placeing blame but there has to be somebody that the buck stops with!! This is a buisness when you start talking about people in the seats or might I say in this case how many people in the seats. People in seats means dollars. Now saying that you have to recognize the differance between spiritual seed and investment seed. People place investment seed in the stock market every day. A good promotion will consist of both investment seed and spiritual. I believe if we get the spiritual in front the investment will take care of it's self kind of like titheing with a good heart. Cause God does know our intent and our main goal when it comes to His buisness!

  21.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/05/2003

    rb,

    I have not placed blame anywhere just responsability. We should work together for the good of all. Still I say this is a great article and just because I have not seen eye to eye on every issue please don't take that as arguing. This is a public sight for people who love gospel music. Not every comment is going to tell the writer how great there article is. The reason this is great is it stirs the mind. We do not have to always be so SGM politicaly correct just honest!

  22.    SG LIVE - 365 RADIO ~ 06/05/2003

    Good article Mr Unthank,.. AMEN!

  23.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/05/2003

    Gunsinger says:
    "This quote bothers me because if a promoter has signed a legal contract he is obligated to pay the group no matter what the crowd. I am not placeing blame but there has to be somebody that the buck stops with!! "

    Obviously you are reading something in this article that is not there. Where does Deon say that a promoter is not obligated to pay or that a promoter shouldn't pay? I think maybe you are speaking from past bad experiences. You say you understand seed and investment in one breath and then in another you say that the artist is not obligated to promote the concerts. You have not been consistent in your discussion.

    Gunsinger says:
    "We do not have to always be so SGM politicaly correct just honest!"

    What comments on here would you say is SGM politically correct? Your statements are so confusing to say the least.

  24.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/05/2003

    Gunsinger,

    By the way what does Gunsinger mean? And obviously you sing with someone, so why not let us know what group this is that is already doing everything right. smile

  25.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/06/2003

    WhereHeLeads,

    This is not a personal discussion and I am not going to comment on any thing that is personal. Lets just stick to the topic! I have been very consistent and matter a fact which seems to bother you. So please if you are upset with my slant on this subject please don't read my comments. I am not commenting to bother or upset anyone. I just want to get some real insight on what needs to be done! By the way what does the part of Deon's quote"not have enough people show up to pay the group"mean to you. I quoted him not me or anyone else in this discussion. As far as SGM politicaly correct I think any comment made ,that is truth , which would be silenced for the sake of not ruffleing the wronge feathers is someone who trys to stay on the politicaly correct side of SGM. If what he said was not there that would meen that I just decided to make something up and start commenting. My mentality would not allow me to comment on something that is not there!The pastor of a church sows seed every week but not in the same capacity as the rest of the church. He is responsible for that flock, yet they all sow seed. No the artist is not responsibe for the promotion of an event. That is the PROMOTER'S JOB!!!did you notice I said job.If the artist had been called to promote he or she would be called a PROMOTER. That is not to say that the artist should not be willing to help and I will say again all you have to do is communicate with the artist you have booked. Notice the promoter calls the artist to book their group not the artist call the promoter. My discussion has been based on a group that is established not getting started. I hope we can be a part of the solution not add to the problem!

  26.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/06/2003

    Gunsinger said:
    " By the way what does the part of Deon's quote"not have enough people show up to pay the group"mean to you."

    Well obviously it doesn't mean the same to you. You imply that it means the promoter WON'T pay the group. What it means to me is that the crowd wasn't large enough to provide all the expenses. I don't read anything more into it. Obviously many promoters have paid groups out of their own pocket when the crowd wasn't enough. You seem intent on focusing solely on promoters not paying the artists when the focus of this article isn't even about that. I am sure that would make another interesting article, but for the sake of discussion on this one it would be better to stick to the topic at hand, Sowind and Reaping for both the artist and the promoter.

    You speak of SGM politically correct statements as truth that is silenced for the sake of not ruffling the wrong feathers, but my question to you is, where has this happened here and why bring that up? Have your questions or comments been silenced in this discussion? If they have then you have a gripe, but if not, and I assume they have not, as mine have not, then that comment was out of line and totally off topic.

    Personally you say you want to be part of the solution and not the problem, but you refuse to see the point that in order to build up a crowd it sometimes takes the artist and the promoter working together.
    You may be involved in a group that is established but your words are too defensive to be logical.

  27.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/06/2003

    Gunslinger,

    I see alot of contradiction in your comments. You say the artist is not suppose to promote the singing then you say if you will just contact the artist they would be willing to help. Which is it should the artist help get people there or shouldn't they?

    I'll promise from experience, DJ's love to hear from artist. If they are going to be in your area and they call you you ought to do whatever you can to help them. Remember If it wasn't for the artist what would the DJ"s play? Doesn't matter if you are running spots for that singing or not if that artist calls and you are any kind of DJ you will give them their time to talk. If you didn't and I were your manager we would have problems. We had the Hoppers call some stations and we didn't have spots on some of them, but they gave Dean an interview. We had comments that they heard about it on a particular station, so next year we will spend some with them.

    This article is suppose to show the artist and promoters how to relate to each other instead of saying that's your job or thats my job. We just need to grow up and realize that everything doesn't just fall from the sky. If it's worth havingit's worth working for on both ends!!!

  28.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/07/2003

    To All,

    I promise you that the artist are working very hard to help promote! I believe everyone does have jobs and responibilitys in what ever buisness you are in. In this case when a promoter takes on the responsibility to promote a concert he is responsible for that concert. The artist should stay in as close contact as possible with all who are in this industry. I have never said the artist is immune from work. I hope this statement is logical enough. This will be my last statement. I know you all hate that. I will not respond any further. I pray if you are in this industry in any capacity that we will all band together in prayer to ask God's blessing on all things that we do to glorify the name of Jesus Christ. If I have learned one thing it is healthy discussion is good. I believe a little communication on both sides of this issue would help greatly.


    The Gunsinger

    P.S. I made it up. Just like you did WHL!!

  29.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/07/2003

    Gunsinger said:
    "I promise you that the artist are working very hard to help promote!"

    See, this is where you loose it. Apparently all artists are not doing their job to help promote or this article would not need to be written. You are speaking from what your group does but you cannot say that of everyone. Unfortunately, even some of the --big name-- groups are not doing their part.

    As to the name Gunsinger, you didn't answer my question. What does it mean? I didn't ask you where you got it. I think WhereHeLeads is pretty self explanatory, but Gunsinger isn't. Do you sing with a Gun? Did you mean Gunslinger and just keep forgetting the --l--? LOL

  30.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/08/2003

    Gunsinger said: I promise you that the artist are working very hard to help promote!

    Gunsinger, you cannot make that promise. The fact isthat most groups and artists ar NOT doing their part to make a promotion successful.

    Gunsinger said: In this case when a promoter takes on the responsibility to promote a concert he is responsible for that concert.

    Who made this a rule. I would say that the artist is wanting that booking as bad as the promoter is. As I have said before, I think that a percentage of the gate would be a great incentive for the artist to get involved. I know a lot of secular artists work that way.

  31.    Keith Prater ~ 06/09/2003

    All this discussion about who does the promoting has either pulled us away from the real reason we are here, or reflects the true nature of SGM. Is everybody in it for the money? Is this just a business? I would hope that it is not.

    It seems that when you get down to the nitty-gritty, the artist alone is responsible for sowing the seed that produces fruit. If God has called me to sing Southern Gospel, He may send someone to help me, but it is still my (and the Lord's) responsibility to do the work.

    As I said in a previous post, there are many other things besides promotion the artist needs to sow into to reap success. Things such as practice and making sure what you do is top quality will take you to places promotion cannot. Of course, the most important thing is your spiritual relationship with Jesus Christ. Without these things, a promoter can't help you. Sadly, there are lots of SG artists out there who expect to reap the rewards of the Gaithers, Gold City and other SG artists, who have not invested the time and energy necessary to make what they do as good as these other artists and have not realized that they are not matching these artists' musical quality.

    My point, I guess, is that I'm sure that Deon needed to post an article that encourages artists to help with their own promotion, and I agree with its' basic premise. But promotion is a small part of the things an artist needs to do to be successful. If the artist will do these other things I've mentioned, promotion will be a breeze.

  32.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/09/2003

    Keith, I certainly didn't intend for my article to be taken as an end all for making an artist successful. I could not possibly talk about everything at one setting. This is one area that I believe is lacking. You certainly made some good points.

  33.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/11/2003

    This topic sure has brought out alot of responses. After reading all comments, I have this opinion. Promotion of a concert should reside with the promoter. The promoter desides what type of assistance he requires of the artist. The promoter is the boss. If the artist doesn't hold up their end such as ( promotion of the concert that the promoter has outlined, Proper presentation of the artists material or unprofessional action during the concert) then the promoter has the option, not to book that group again. I have learned over the past 2 years, that even though I beleive that everything I invest in my group is for a ministry reason. I have had to realize that almost everyone in SGM, treats this like a business. And a business it is. Promters can't have singings without the bills being paid. And Artists can't travel to venues without the bills being paid either. But I do believe that the promoter should be in charge of the singing and the booked artist should have the responsibility to aid the promoter in anyway possible to insure the sucess of the concert.

  34.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/11/2003

    R. Papizan said:
    "I do believe that the promoter should be in charge of the singing and the booked artist should have the responsibility to aid the promoter in anyway possible to insure the sucess of the concert."

    Exactly what Deon stated. It takes the cooperation of both parties to insure a successful concert. Unless an artist is willing to help invest themselves in promoting especially in an area they are not known in, they cannot fully expect to reap a harvest.

  35.    Bruce Langley ~ 06/13/2003

    This article and following comments tells me that the bottom line should be cooperation between the artists and promoter. As an artist, I appreciate and lean on my promoter but know to not entirely lean on them for the end result. In farming situations, it is common to work together "on halves". That means that both parties split the benefits because they have both given their all toward the final outcome. I guess, it just takes two.

  36.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/14/2003

    Deon,
    I'm not sure if I want jump into this bee's nest or not but I have to disagree with your point of view of live bands. I have been just as blessed by annointed musicians as I have been by singers. Live music performed by a musician who is spiritually in tune with the concert is a beautifully moving experience. Trax are OK but I think most folks will agree with me that TALENTED live musicians prevail always... and they are a drawing card. I have to believe that only a non-musician would make such a comment that places SG bands at such a level of non-importantance. I've often joked about our band performing independently and having the VOCALS on a soundtrack.
    Terry

  37.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/14/2003

    TES wrote: I think most folks will agree with me that TALENTED live musicians prevail always... and they are a drawing card.

    Of course you're right. Anyone who thinks differently is just kidding themselves. It's so important that even when he uses tracks, Gaither hires musicians to bang on unplugged instruments to make people *think* he's using a band.

  38.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/15/2003

    Growler said:
    "Of course you're right. Anyone who thinks differently is just kidding themselves."

    Well, that's just your opinion. If it were true then groups without bands would never be able to draw a crowd. It isn't the musicians alone that draw. If that were the case you would see SG Bands with no vocalists. But do you? Come on, while live musicians --DO-- add flair to the performance they are not the end-all to the group.

    Karen Peck and New River has not lost a beat by cutting out her live musicians. Personally, I do miss them, but I wouldn't choose a live band over her just for the band.

    As to your input on Gaither, you are not correct. (I always wonder about people who make comments as if they really are in the --know--). I have sat in the back by the sound board at Gaither Concerts and watched them during live performances. They most definitely are playing. It is true that they have some songs, that they use pre-recorded music on, but it is not all songs.

  39.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/15/2003

    Tes,

    The following statement, "There is no difference between a group having musicians or not when it comes to drawing power." was not in any way placing musicians on a level of non-importance. It is simply a statement of fact. When it comes to the --drawing power of a group--, having a live band does not mean success. Why make assumptions on one statement?

  40.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/15/2003

    WhereHeLeads,
    Why make assumptions on one statement you ask? It seems you made an assumption that I said "having a live band insures success." Where did I say that??? All I intended to communicate was that a live band is more exciting than a "canned band" any day of the week. I would think that's inarguable. As for KP and New River, I'll bet the great band that they had did more to accelerate their popularity than some may give them credit for.

  41.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/15/2003

    TES,
    Actually, I find the term "canned" music offensive.
    My experience has been that the musians are the ones who most notice that a live band is missing. Rock and Roll, and Country music have a major emphasis on the music. When people are dancing to the music, words are not that important. However, in Gospel music, the words are the emphasis. We are not being moved by the music, but by the words. I will have to disagree with you that it is inarguable that live band is more exciting. I go to a singing to hear the singers, not the musicians. I believe that you will see that the average fan, sees it the same way. Don't get me wrong, I am not against a live band. I would love to have a live band, but not for the sound, but rather for the diversity that live musicians can give you. The truth is that I am not less prone to go see a group because they do or do not have a live band. I would be less prone to go see a group that had only musicians, and no singers.
    As to the Gaither comment, Gaither does use live musicians, but they are not stage front. You never see the musicians playing at the Homecoming concerts. You have to look to find them.

  42.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/15/2003

    TES,

    I did not assume anything about you or your statements. I made a statement that having live bands does not insure success. I am quite sure you can speak for yourself and express your own opinions. I asked why you make assumptions for others based upon one statement? I made not assumptions about your opinions.

    As for Karen Peck and New River, no doubt having a live band was a real asset for them, but not having one has in no way hurt their popularity, therefore I am of the opinion that having one may not have accelorated their popularity anymore than they could have accomplished without one.

    Now before you assume that I am --anti-band-- I assure you I am not. But, I do not make judgments based upon a group having or not having a live band. There are very few groups in Southern Gospel that have --real-- bands. And by that I mean more than just a piano player and a drummer. Based upon that I would make an argument that Southern Gospel music is not dependant upon nor has it ever been dependant upon a band to insure success.

  43.    Keith Prater ~ 06/16/2003

    Having a live band does help a group as long as they follow three rules: all the musicians need to be well trained, the music they provide needs to be mixed properly with the vocals, and the musicians must be as spiritually trained as the singers. Of course, the problem is that pulling off all three of these successfully is very difficult. There are few that success at it. However, you do not necessarily need a big or boisterous band. A piano, bass and drums done tastefully, along with the vocals, can be very inspiring.



  44.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/16/2003

    Deon / WhereHeLeads,

    OK, I can see that we disagree somewhat but we are together on the most important things. Most definitely I agree that the emphasis is always on the words being sung. My entire focus in being a musician in a Gospel band is that if the music (band) in any way garners the attention of the people and takes the concentration off of the vocalist(s) then we have completely failed as a SG band. Nothing offends me more than to see a musician “hot dogging” while someone is singing. Obviously the places we try to shine are instrumentals, intros, turnarounds, and tags. While words are being sung, our desire is to be totally focused on making every element of our instruments and our bodies edify the vocalists and the lyrics of the song. When we get to that place, that’s when our Lord and Savior becomes the object of our (and the crowd’s) worship. – The only reason we’re there.

    Deon said, “we are not being moved by the music, but by the words.” I believe the music is used by God as a catalyst to help to move the words into the listener’s heart, therefore we are being moved by the music.

    I guess the term “canned music” is kind of derogatory…that’s probably why I said it. I apologize for the offense.

    As for the Gaither comment…I didn’t make that one, I’m innocent.

    Keith Prater,
    Well said.

    It would be interesting to see a poll question on this subject worded something like this: On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being high), how much importance do you place on a SG group having a live band to accompany the vocalists? My guess would be an 8.5. I think you believe it would total around a 3. I’ll bet one of us would be surprised. Do we dare…

  45.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/16/2003

    Tes,

    I am a musician and yea it's great to have band, but when you can find 3 to 5 people that will be dedicated enough to play together that is good enough and that's not family, than you call me. Yea there are probably exceptions to the rule, but not many. I'm not talking about the ones who get paid hundreds of dollars a night either. By being good enough I mean they should be able to sound as close to the cd as possible. You can find anybody that wants to play and thats fine, but when you get on stage and they forget how something goes or what key or who is suppose to kick it off, than I would just rather have the tracks. I still go to the piano from time to time and we do a few but those tracks never gripe or complain they can always hear they always get their far share of spotlight, do I need to go on? Yes a live band is awesome but don't knock someone with tracks because someone better made those tracks. That is not being rude, that is just saying you pay for the best why not use them. You are probably like me and know a few good players, but it is getting them to do it first. Before you get mad because someone is not beating your door down or ringing your phone off the hook, think about it first. The last line, yes that was my opinion. Thanks

  46.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/17/2003

    drm,

    It's all just opinions here, that's what I like about it.

    I never "knocked" anyone for using tracks, I just said live, TALENTED, spiritual, musicians add more excitment to the concert than do tracks. Sure it's hard to find the right combination...if it was easy then no band would stand out above the rest. As a musician, if I didn't feel that way, I might as well be sitting in the crowd doing nothing because I sure can't sing.

  47.    Keith Prater ~ 06/17/2003

    DRM is probably right that it is hard to find enough intrumentalists with the right demeanor and skill to make a good SG band. On the other hand, it is the responsibility of SG groups' leaders to guide the musicians in the direction they should go, to instill in the band proper musicianship. One two-hour rehearsal a week will not help the band know who does the turn-around or what key the song is in. Even highly skilled professionals will use lead sheets or written out parts to give them reminders of the events of a piece of music. Are the groups' leaders providing these to the band members? Do the leaders have the skills to do so?

    Obviously, I'm not talking about level-one groups like the Gaithers or Gold City. I'm sure their musicianships skills are what make them the top groups in the industry. Also, there are several groups and singers who are just a notch below the level-one groups who have plenty of musicianship skills. However, more than most, Southern Gospel music has a lot of artists who are played on SG radio whose skill level isn't that high -- vocalists and instrumentalists. I believe this thread of discussion mostly centers on these folks.

    I think the Southern Gospel industry owes it to itself to encourage the improvement of its' overall musicianship skills. It should discourage folks from thinking that if they have enough money to make a custom recording, they can be placed on the radio. I guess one of the charms of SG music is that it is more grass roots than most other genre. That is a good thing. But what would really be good is grass-roots with musical skill.

    This thread began as a discussion between the artists and the promoters. The reason I pull the discussion to the artists music skills is that SG is not always perceived by the general public as being a legitimate music genre. That's because on any given weekend, a large portion of SG concerts being presented across the country are by artists who are not that skilled musically. I believe that we must change that perception in order to be able to draw people to SG concerts. But in order to change the perception, we must raise the level of musicianship in the Southern Gospel music industry.

  48.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/20/2003

    I can't believe that none of you musicians missed good argument FOR musicians that I gave. I stand by my reasoning that only the musicians are the one who notice when it's not a live band playing, however, the diversity and spontenaety (sp) that live music gives is a real plus. I know that musicians hate to hear this, but I believe that the ideal situation is to have a keyboard player and tracks, or maybe even keyboard and drums with tracks.
    That way you have the best of both worlds, the full sound of all the instruments for your set program, and the diversity to vary your program for a song or two with your live instruments. Let me state once again that I am NOT against live musicians, but tracks are much better than bad, stuburn, or show-off musicians.

  49.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/20/2003

    All I know is that I enjoyed going to SG concerts a lot more when groups used full bands. I miss the days of hearing the Original Hinsons, Gold City, Nelons, and McGruders with full bands. I rarely go to SG concerts anymore...I can enjoy their music at home or in the car...it's the same as hearing them in concert with tracks.

  50.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/20/2003

    You're right, Deon, tracks would be better than bad musicians. I do have to ask, though, why should it be harder to find competent, dedicated musicians than it is to find singers? And I must disagree with one statement, I am not a musician yet I definitely notice when there is not a live band. Of course, to me the current crop of sound tracks is too elaborate anyway. What's wrong with just singing to a piano? It worked for years.

  51.    Keith Prater ~ 06/20/2003

    Tony has a good question: why is it so hard to find competent, dedicated musicians? It's because SG groups do not appreciate good musicians. Many of the SG groups who complain of not having enough money to pay musicians are traveling around in $100,000 busses. That's not showing off?! Of course, if the groups expect their musicians to play for free, they are going to end up with "bad, stubborn, or show off musicians." That's because the good musicians value their craft too much to waste it on folks who are not willing to pay for it. It's a sign of the bad state of the industry when more money is being spent of busses, sound equipment, recordings and, yes, promotion than on good talent.

  52.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/21/2003

    jt,

    You are correct my friend. I wholeheartedly agree with your observation. Apparently it seems everyone except poor ole Deon prefers a live band.

    Tony,
    I don't believe there's any difference in the difficulty level in finding competent, dedicated musicians as locating the same type singers. I've done both...a few times.

    Keith,
    Well said again!

  53.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/21/2003

    Don't assume so much, first, Deon never said he didn't prefer a live band. And there are lots of other people that have no preference at all. Your arguments sound more like a disgruntled band member who wishes he had a job.

  54.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/21/2003

    It doesn't matter to me whether a group has a band or not. That's not why I listern. My two favorites are The Martins and The Crabb Family. See one does and one doesn't.

  55.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/21/2003

    I think this issue is entirely off focus on the article. This was an interesting analogy on sowing and reaping and promoting. Good article.

  56.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/21/2003

    WhereHeLeads,

    Uhhh, are ya hirin'???

  57.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/22/2003

    Sorry to tell some of you (I like them myself) but The Crabb Family doesn't use a live band. I know they have some musicians on stage, but it all playing over tracks. I say this from knowing not just speculation. There is alot of groups that do the same and we think just because there is somebody on stage with an instrument in their hands that they are awesome. I heard a group on GMT the other night that had a great band, but you could not stand to hear the vocals. Whats better,tracks with good vocals or good band with bad vocals. If you can't sing it doesn't matter what you have.
    Don't get me wrong(I don't want to be miss quoted) I DO LOVE TO HEAR LIVE BANDS, but when you are trying to have unity in a group it's alot easier with less opinions. I've been in a group with a live band(sitting on both sides) and everytime you try to do something some ones always against it. You have got to try to compromise and do whats best for the group. It should come down to what the vocalist wants after all they are the ones who are singing the songs and the sing has to be able to hit the notes and sing it comfortably. I'm not against hard singing thats the only way I know to sing, so I push myself every night because I think I should give my very best for the lord. I have no problem paying someone,it is hard to find someone that can play what they hear or that can read a chart. Anyway this is the way I feel and it is my opinion. God Bless!!

  58.    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ~ 06/22/2003

    Someone said: jt,

    You are correct my friend. I wholeheartedly agree with your observation. Apparently it seems everyone except poor ole Deon prefers a live band.

    Deon said:

    Contrair my friend, but only musicians have been discussing here, which goes to my point, only musicians notice. However, Mark is right, this has absolutely nothing to do with the article that I wrote.



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